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As an American person who has lived in US, Europe, South America and Asia, I can't think of anywhere that this is appealing. I realize that American women like that, but outside of the U.S., it isn't really that prevalent. Mostly because American is a 'specialized' country where people get into things to severe lengths - i.e. you'll have a culture for everything. Secondly, because the obesity levels are so incredibly high, that weight-lifters counter that, and are an alternative to obesity. The non-obese in the U.S. would be teased as rails or sticks....they are so uncommonly seen. So therefore Americans get into this dichotomy of being either in the obese/fat/out-of-shape category or the 'in shape' categories.
This is significantly different than most of the rest of the world where obesity isn't the norm. (That being said, it is increasing in many places).
If I were to think of a place, maybe Austria, and only because of Schwarzenegger...but even he hightailed it to California well-knowing that was the place for a guy like him.
I have a feeling that maybe parts of Europe..maybe Germany or the UK, perhaps? Maybe parts of Eastern Europe? Maybe? But not so sure.
But, most of the rest of world, particularly Asia (where it is a major detractor and turn-off), its not that common.
You mentioned obesity. The obesity stats show a very high, continuously increasing obesity rate that is near equal among men and women, slightly higher among men. My personal observations are that more women are obese. What I think is happening is that muscular men score as obese on BMI charts. If someone from 40-50 years ago visited today's USA they would be shocked at how big people have become. They would notice women are obese and men are very muscular. They might not know that much of it is steroid induced.
As an American person who has lived in US, Europe, South America and Asia, I can't think of anywhere that this is appealing. I realize that American women like that, but outside of the U.S., it isn't really that prevalent. Mostly because American is a 'specialized' country where people get into things to severe lengths - i.e. you'll have a culture for everytthing. Secondly, because the obesity levels are so incredibly high, that weight-lifters counter that, and are an alternative to obesity. The non-obese in the U.S. would be teased as rails or sticks....they are so uncommonly seen. So therefore Americans get into this dichotomy of being either in the obese/fat/out-of-shape category or the 'in shape' categories.
This is significantly different than most of the rest of the world where obesity isn't the norm. (That being said, it is increasing in many places).
If I were to think of a place, maybe Austria, and only because of Schwarzenegger...but even he hightailed it to California well-knowing that was the place for a guy like him.
I have a feeling that maybe parts of Europe..maybe Germany or the UK, perhaps? Maybe parts of Eastern Europe? Maybe? But not so sure.
But, most of the rest of world, particularly Asia (where it is a major detractor and turn-off), its not that common.
Im sorry, but the manner in which you talk about America is insulting, outrageous, inaccurate, and just frankly ridiculous and delusional.
America is not a “specialized” country. What the **** does THAT mean? America is a country, the most ethnically and racially diverse country on the planet, with the third largest population on earth. Your generalizations utterly fail here, and look like embarrassing, nasty, arrogant, delusionally false attempts to dredge up negativity around something that could be seen as a positive: American men just tend to be somewhat more muscular than men from, say, France.
But no - instead, you opt to execute a bizarre feat of mental gymnastics by attempting to psychoanalyze “the country” at large, in order to twist this into something negative. Because “America = bad”. Right? Isn’t that how it always is with you people?
Nowhere in the US are you made fun of for not being big. It is quite literally the opposite of that. That’s an utterly absurd, fantastical notion driven by your (and many other’s) obsession with obesity, for some reason exclusively in regards to America...as if it isn’t a disease that all humans are susceptible to, as if it’s only prevalent in the US, as if it’s not more prevalent elsewhere, and as if the US is the only country facilitating obesity when it’s not. When it’s actually the country doing the most to combat it, and when it’s the most body-conscious, vain country by far, given that *its the center of the global beauty and entertainment industry*. No one is taking steroids because of some perception that you have to be fat in America, because an isnignificant minority of people in this country are truly obese. And it has ALWAYS been the case that fat people are made fun of. Like, how delusional do you have to be to think American’s have embraced obesity as the standard, to the point that you’re implying they prefer that? And try to be that way? It’s, again, absolutely the opposite. What an idiotic ****ing statement. The average American body size is quite average and reasonably thin looking, and to act like American’s are massive and overweight *on average*, or as a majority, is an epic, common sense-defying, a-factual delusion of amazing proportions. Stop it with the hyperbole.
This is a problem. Why?
1) Because it’s very obvious just via observation that the average body of an American and British/Australian/German/Canadian person, isn’t noticeably different. Obese people in the US are a tiny, tiny minority.
2) There is absolutely no data to support the claim that obesity has increased since the 60s - when studies regarding weight via BMI really took off.
3) BMI isn’t a measurement of body composition whatsoever. It merely measures height against weight. Most people who rank overweight or obese on BMI look perfectly normal, even lean. It is wrong to say that any portion of people are “fat” because of BMI rankings. The people who are objectively and unhealthily obese, or those who have much higher amounts of body fat, tend to rank in the “severely obese” section of the BMI index - which accounts for no more than 0.5 - 1% of the US and most other western countries.
4) Obesity is not a solid variable. People gain and lose weight all the time. You can’t correlate it to a country or a nationality, especially such a large and diverse country as the US. That’s just abjectly flawed and a racist attempt at Anti-Americanism. A bitterness at how attractive Americans are compared to those inbred Brits, or those hook nosed Germans, or those sallow faced Frenchies, maybe?
5) Then we get into all of the caveats that make **** like the OECD “obesity by country” index stupid: most countries have a vast array of surveys and organizations that attempt to compile self-reported and measured data to ascertain a national obesity rate. What’s more, each survey/organization from each country sets different thresholds for limits of normal size, overweight, and obese. On top of that, the demographic differences of countries complicate matters: New Zealand’s obesity rate is skewed by the proportion of Pacific Islanders it has, who have a phenotype that gives them broader/stouter bodies, which makes them more prone to gaining excess fat. They are over-represented by a lot in NZ’s obesity rate. Similarly, African Americans and Hispanic Americans both contend with phenotypes that make them 1) “bigger-boned”, or larger in stature and 2) Shorter, stouter, and more prone to gaining fat, respectively. Both demographics are hugely present in America, and are over-represented massively in the American obesity rate. So “national obesity rates” are incomparable and un-index-able, yet for some reason, the WHO has tried. To failed results. There’s also, finally, the issue of statistical incoherencies: conflicting stories that show we’re eating healthier than we ever have, comparisons between Canadian provinces and American states that show higher obesity rates for Canadian provinces, very high rates of adolescent/adult exercise in the US relative to most of the world, and much higher childhood obesity rates in the Mediterranean countries (Italy, Greece, Spain, Malta) than in the US
If you’re going to figure out “what countries are the fattest”, you’d have to take the range of obesity estimates made for each respective country, adjust for population size to determine the prevalence, and for practical reasons, take into account population density.
Well, when you consider the fact that (BMI) obesity estimates for the UK, which has a population of 66,000,000, range anywhere from the mid-20s to the upper 30s percentage points, and that obesity estimates for America range from the low-20s to the upper 30s, in a much larger population of 350,000,000 - that makes the U.K. far more proportionately overweight than America. Taking into account the greater population density of the U.K., you’d also be far more likely to see fat people in the U.K. overall than you would in “the US”. A huge country with a very spread out population.
Have you been to the U.K.? Or any western country? The U.K. looks like a much fatter country than America, as did Germany, Canada, the Czech Republic, Greece, China, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, and New Zealand quite frankly. And again, all of these countries have identically comparable obesity estimates to America, and yet have much smaller populations. Ergo, those countries are much more fat than the US. That’s a very simple mathematical conclusion to make. There are fat people EVERYWHERE in the world.
I know I shouldn’t have written a novel discussing and disputing something that shouldn’t even be thought or said, but whatever. I’m sorta sick of it.
Last edited by declanreed5; 12-24-2019 at 05:26 AM..
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Originally Posted by declanreed5
Well, when you consider the fact that (BMI) obesity estimates for the UK, which has a population of 66,000,000, range anywhere from the mid-20s to the upper 30s percentage points, and that obesity estimates for America range from the low-20s to the upper 30s, in a much larger population of 350,000,000 - that makes the U.K. far more proportionately overweight than America. Taking into account the greater population density of the U.K., you’d also be far more likely to see fat people in the U.K. overall than you would in “the US”. A huge country with a very spread out population.
Have you been to the U.K.? Or any western country? The U.K. looks like a much fatter country than America, as did Germany, Canada, the Czech Republic, Greece, China, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, and New Zealand quite frankly. And again, all of these countries have identically comparable obesity estimates to America, and yet have much smaller populations. Ergo, those countries are much more fat than the US. That’s a very simple mathematical conclusion to make. There are fat people EVERYWHERE in the world.
I know I shouldn’t have written a novel discussing and disputing something that shouldn’t even be thought or said, but whatever. I’m sorta sick of it.
If you go to the UK and Europe, you will notice a number of things, and that's firstly the portions even in fast food chains are smaller than they are in the US, you also dn't genmerally get free refills of drinks and there is now a sugar tax on soft drinks in the UK. Taking food home from a restaurant in a bag is also not common in the UK or Europe when compared to the US.
The average BMI by country is what is generally used, and this takes in to account the population of a country. The US is joint 17th and the UK is joint 40th.
The UK's major downfall is alcohol consumption, and the UK developed fast food long before the US even did, in terms of fish and chips, pies and pasties and even the humble sandwich.
Alcohol consumtion has however been falling in the UK for a number of years and over a quarter of adults now don't even drink at all. At the same time numbers of vegetarians and vegans has skyrocketed.
I hate both individual males who take roids and countries where this is common. IMO taking them for athletic enhancement is cheating but less offensive than a man who takes them to help him in the mating/sexual market. Any country where a man has to or feels he has to get all roided up to attract women is absolutely rotten to the core. Not only do I cheer that steroid using men get steroid related side effects and medical issues, I cheer the downfall of any society where steroid use is mainstream.
A few years ago I saw pictures of younger Russian men and none were roided up. I then read that is considered in bad taste for Russian men to have an excessively muscular body. The Russian men looked like nice boys next door compared to young American men who look like roided up monsters in comparison.
When I see pictures of young African men I am in awe of how nice they look and that they are allowed to be skinny.
It appears you are using anecdotal experience and/or random pictures to draw a conclusion of wide spread abuse of anabolic steroids in the US. Users can be all shapes and sizes and not just the large muscle mass carrying males you are probably referring to. I agree that there is anabolic steroid presence at all level of sports and in some gyms, but until someone can post actual statistics I would assume the usage rate across the population is relatively low.
As another poster mentioned I would be more concerned about the health and cost impact to the US due to increasing obesity rates.
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Originally Posted by davwve
It appears you are using anecdotal experience and/or random pictures to draw a conclusion of wide spread abuse of anabolic steroids in the US. Users can be all shapes and sizes and not just the large muscle mass carrying males you are probably referring to. I agree that there is anabolic steroid presence at all level of sports and in some gyms, but until someone can post actual statistics I would assume the usage rate across the population is relatively low.
As another poster mentioned I would be more concerned about the health and cost impact to the US due to increasing obesity rates.
It's mainly gym posers in the UK and there are lots of gyms in most areass of the country.
As an American person who has lived in US, Europe, South America and Asia, I can't think of anywhere that this is appealing. I realize that American women like that, but outside of the U.S., it isn't really that prevalent. Mostly because American is a 'specialized' country where people get into things to severe lengths - i.e. you'll have a culture for everything. Secondly, because the obesity levels are so incredibly high, that weight-lifters counter that, and are an alternative to obesity. The non-obese in the U.S. would be teased as rails or sticks....they are so uncommonly seen. So therefore Americans get into this dichotomy of being either in the obese/fat/out-of-shape category or the 'in shape' categories.
This is significantly different than most of the rest of the world where obesity isn't the norm. (That being said, it is increasing in many places).
If I were to think of a place, maybe Austria, and only because of Schwarzenegger...but even he hightailed it to California well-knowing that was the place for a guy like him.
I have a feeling that maybe parts of Europe..maybe Germany or the UK, perhaps? Maybe parts of Eastern Europe? Maybe? But not so sure.
But, most of the rest of world, particularly Asia (where it is a major detractor and turn-off), its not that common.
The way people act as if obesity in the US is so absurdly high is hilarious. The way you talk about Americans (the third largest, most diverse nationality on earth) you’d think the vast majority were mutant slobs. It’s just so bigoted/self-hating to personally attack so many Americans like that.
Your assumptions are, first of all, very bizarre. You single Asia out for being fit and thin, but it isn’t, really. PBF is just underestimated in Asian populations, which is why they register as very prone to diabetes yet don’t appear to have high obesity rates.
I’d encourage you to dig a little bit more when it comes to your knowledge of global obesity rates, because so many glance at a WHO index and get their assumptions from there. The thing is, that index compares a ton of disparate pieces of data from a bunch of different surveys across the globe - different areas have different formulas for correlating PBF (Percentage Body Fat) to BMI, and different countries use slightly different methods to each other when gauging national obesity rates. They have different rates of coverage, and demographic differences that need to be accounted for, at the very least (such as how black and Hispanic minorities in the US are vastly over represented in the national obesity rate).
The WHO found all the way back in 2004 that, in a comparison between white Americans and Europeans, Europeans had MORE body fat for the same BMI than did Americans. Using the American formula for correlating PBF to BMI, European obesity rates are underestimated - which is why American obesity rates appear over-inflated relative to countries that, otherwise, perform similarly or worse in a number of national health metrics, like rates of vigorous exercise, national diet, consumption of alcohol...
Cross-compare with Gallup and Healthway self-reported obesity rates for the US (27.7% as of 2014), state-level obesity rates from Gallup and the CDC (which are, on average and at median, slightly lower than the province-level obesity rates for Canada), as well as other data from the CDC (there were as many as 93 million obese Americans as of 2019 - which, out of 327 million, is 28.5% of the country - perfectly in line with other western obesity rates), and you very much see that the US isn’t a more “obese” country than comparable western nations like Canada, the UK, or Australia. And given, for example, the UK’s smaller size and dense population, yet comparable rates of obesity, I’d wager the obese population is more visible there.
Your statement as to the perceptions of obesity in the US, as well as its prevalence and extent, are extremely hyperbolic and anti-factual.
The US, across a number of studies, ranks rather highly for rates of vigorous exercise, particularly among teenagers:
^ This would largely explain why American teen boys look more muscular to you - because, consistently, as a demographic, American teenagers report very high rates of vigorous exercise - and if you’re aware of the fact that America has been the home of modern weight-lifting since the 50s, that American schools are particularly known for their heavy integration of athletics into student life, and that America tends to be a rather image conscious society overall, then this should come as no surprise to you...
I would say, given its size, that America has more notable extremes in lifestyle when it comes to health and lack of health, but I would say the average or median American is just as healthy, if not more so, than the average British person or Canadian - the UK being a country with high rates of drinking and smoking, a very carb-heavy diet (consisting of full English breakfast’s, scotch eggs, battered sausages, meat pies, shepherd’s pie, fish and chips and French Fry sandwiches, or “chip butties”), and comparably low rates of vigorous exercise and athletic competition in schools to keep teens active. I just can’t imagine such a country is very healthy relative to the US at all. Additionally, the UK reports slightly higher childhood and adolescent obesity rates as of late, and countries in the Mediterranean region apparently have much higher childhood obesity rates than the US does.
And from my experience, Europeans tend not to appear more physically fit; they appear either skinny, or pudgy, with a lot of body fat around the middle (“beer bellies”). In contrast, the US has extremes of skinny and obese akin to the UK and Canada and Australia, but a far more physically fit and muscled median relative to Europe. American teen boys tend to be more muscular because they play sports more frequently, and a larger variety of them. They also tend to be sports that, along with cardio, utilize fitness regimens heavily based around weight-training and bulking up - where the “corn-fed” look comes from.
I don’t know how you can speak to Russia’s physical fitness when any statistics relating to its obesity rate aren’t very consistent, plentiful, readily available, or thorough relative to western nations, especially the US.
I would stop pretending that every other American that you see is fat, in the first place. They’re not. Overall, in the US, as in any other country, prevalence of obesity is regional - do not try to tell me that you saw so many fat people in California; a state with 39 million people (more than the entire population of Australia, or Canada), a state that’s not particularly dense in population relative to the UK, a state that’s geographically larger than the entire UK, and one that has only ever reported a 25% obesity rate at max and is known for its body-conscious, health-centric culture.
Last edited by wattsupmane; 04-12-2020 at 04:20 PM..
It appears you are using anecdotal experience and/or random pictures to draw a conclusion of wide spread abuse of anabolic steroids in the US. Users can be all shapes and sizes and not just the large muscle mass carrying males you are probably referring to. I agree that there is anabolic steroid presence at all level of sports and in some gyms, but until someone can post actual statistics I would assume the usage rate across the population is relatively low.
As another poster mentioned I would be more concerned about the health and cost impact to the US due to increasing obesity rates.
Increasing obesity rates aren’t necessarily a problem as BMI isn’t a measurement of body composition, not to mention obesity rates aren’t actually “increasing” - the WHO just lowered the obesity cutoff value sometime in the late 90s - effectively making as many as 50 million more Americans “obese” overnight.
As a result, people made a bunch of assumptions about the “increase” in obesity rates that just aren’t true at all, and are sometimes absolutely the opposite of reality - people have been making assumptions that America is an extremely unhealthy country in all sorts of ways that it’s not, ways in which data actually indicates America to be particularly healthy in.
What about the country just across the northern border, for example, Canada, is so much healthier for them to have an obesity rate almost as much as 15% lower than the US’s CDC estimate? That just doesn’t make sense to me - use the eye test: do you notice a massive decrease in fat people when you cross the northern border? I don’t, and I think anyone who says they do is engaging in confirmation bias. Canada does not perform better at all on multiple measurements of national health - and they’re just not less fat. Look at state-level obesity rates compared to province level obesity rates. Compare self-reported obesity rates between the two countries. Compare the total numbers of obese people in both countries, consider that the UK has higher childhood and adolescent obesity rates, consider that it performs comparably or much worse in national measurements of vigorous exercise rates, drinking, smoking, and national diet, and then ask yourself why America has to be singled out for its apparent lack of health/obesity rate, when it’s actually been quite a healthy society, in many ways.
In any respect, obesity “rates” are stupid to focus on considering the extremely fluid nature of the obesity variable: 1) Whitin a reasonable range, who qualifies as fat in appearance can change based on personal perception 2) it isn’t necessarily a health defect - obesity can actually make one more immune to health problems that thin or average weight people suffer much more from and 3) people can gain and lose weight quite rapidly.
Obviously, obesity is not the norm in America if people still stigmatize fat people, if we can still be competitive in such events as the Olympics and the Women’s World Cup, if we can maintain high worker productivity rates and the world’s largest military, and if we can still be the primary source in the world for movie stars, models, and porn stars - the assumptions so many in this thread, and around the Internet, make about national health and obesity, are just so hysterical, backwards, and inaccurate.
Acting like obesity is normal, or more prevalent than it actually is, is a huge contributor to “fat acceptance” movements. I have no idea why so many Americans are in love with the self-deprecating idea that most of us are fat, to the extent that they lie about our national health, and even make assumptions about people they can’t see, or don’t know. It’s just such a petty, delusional behavior.
Last edited by wattsupmane; 04-12-2020 at 04:57 PM..
Where I currently live is full of obese men and women with tattoos.
Where are you located?
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