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Thanks Cobolt for your input.No you didnt scare or discourage me, that is exactly what a depressive disorder is like, with or without seasonal influence.It creeps in not being noticed until you address it and then you finally realize that you havent been living life to the fullest, this can happen several times a year with small episodes or every few years with a big episode, but it doesnt matter if you live in tahiti, it is something to deal with for the rest of your life.I think of it as a challenge , we all have them and have the ability to live life to the best of our ability even with our challenges wheather it is , mental, emotional, physcal, or enviromental...It just takes a strong will ,,optimism, and hard work.
You make a good point, logically it would seem that a person already prone to depression would be more prone to having SAD in a place like Alaska.I wonder though if it would severly affect me even though I am already used to coping with a depressive disorder, if it would make my already existing problems worse or if it would go unnoticed compared to the challenges I have already faced.If that makes any sense at all.Or maybe my disorder doesnt affect the potential for developing SAD, because the two are completly unrelated.Real chronic depressive disorders are generally emotional and inherant, while SAD is caused by natural enviromental forces and how we mentally precieve them and lack of vitamin D.Anyone have any thoughs about this ?I am going to talk to my shrink about this and see what she thinks as well.
Last edited by kimling; 07-15-2008 at 04:29 PM..
Reason: ddl
Thanks Cobolt for your input.No you didnt scare or discourage me, that is exactly what a depressive disorder is like, with or without seasonal influence.It creeps in not being noticed until you address it and then you finally realize that you havent been living life to the fullest, this can happen several times a year with small episodes or every few years with a big episode, but it doesnt matter if you live in tahiti, it is something to deal with for the rest of your life.I think of it as a challenge , we all have them and have the ability to live life to the best of our ability even with our challenges wheather it is , mental, emotional, physcal, or enviromental...It just takes a strong will ,,optimism, and hard work.
You make a good point, logically it would seem that a person already prone to depression would be more prone to having SAD in a place like Alaska.I wonder though if it would severly affect me even though I am already used to coping with a depressive disorder, if it would make my already existing problems worse or if it would go unnoticed compared to the challenges I have already faced.If that makes any sense at all.Or maybe my disorder doesnt affect the potential for developing SAD, because the two are completly unrelated.Real chronic depressive disorders are generally emotional and inherant, while SAD is caused by natural enviromental forces and how we mentally precieve them and lack of vitamin D.Anyone have any thoughs about this ?I am going to talk to my shrink about this and see what she thinks as well.
I think talking with your doc is a great idea and I was just going to suggest that. I do know that my sister suffers from a depressive order, but it's hard to tell if the gloomy weather intensifies it or if she's not affected because she is prone to depression. I do know, again from observation, that before I moved to WA state during my visits, she would sleep late, until about 2pm in the winters and be more energetic in the summer. Again, each person is different.
I hope it all works out for you, and I say this as someone who dearly fell in love with Alaska and makes frequent visits, but no longer entertains the notion of moving up there, mainly because of the SAD. I had to be brutally honest with myself when it came to that. I'm simply a happier person when the sun is out. And I have tried countering with lights and the vit D supplements, the best being oil from cold water fish, but it still doesn't replace good old fashioned sun vitamin D.
I think talking with your doc is a great idea and I was just going to suggest that. I do know that my sister suffers from a depressive order, but it's hard to tell if the gloomy weather intensifies it or if she's not affected because she is prone to depression. I do know, again from observation, that before I moved to WA state during my visits, she would sleep late, until about 2pm in the winters and be more energetic in the summer. Again, each person is different.
I hope it all works out for you, and I say this as someone who dearly fell in love with Alaska and makes frequent visits, but no longer entertains the notion of moving up there, mainly because of the SAD. I had to be brutally honest with myself when it came to that. I'm simply a happier person when the sun is out. And I have tried countering with lights and the vit D supplements, the best being oil from cold water fish, but it still doesn't replace good old fashioned sun vitamin D.
See what your doc says. All my best to you!
Thanks Cobolt, I appreciate your view and experience.Its a difficult thing to predict without first hand experience.Some people seem to not be affected at all by it, and others like you cannot cope with it at all.My mother in law and father in law both had some depression and were actually kindof unpleasant to be around down here because of the heat, smog, and crowdedness , but say they love it there, and are happy sitting by the fire looking out at the snow fall and the occassional moose passing by.They also seem to be much more pleasant people when we visit now, and have better attitudes all around from what I noticed, but like you said everyone is different, they might just be oddities.
I just wanted to chime in as someone who had no clue about SAD until I moved to an area where it's cloudy to overcast over half of the year. It was a big learning experience!
Interesting.
This business of lots of dark is of course something that gets discussed up here in some detail... by those who have not lived here long, and almost not at all by people who were born here or have lived here for years.
I personally am not much affected by hours of daylight. I have always preferred to be a nightowl. When I worked a 4 PM to midnight shift, I never used an alarm clock and was never late for work.
But rain causes me all sorts of problems. If three drops come down, I want to go to bed! One reason I love Barrow is the average rain fall here is amost too small to measure. Including the snow, we get an "equivalent rain fall" of 4.6 inches annually. Most of that is the two or three feet of snow.
But... one thing to note about SAD is that it usually is not the hours of darkness that are a problem, but rather the spring time transition from lots of dark to lots of light. People all across Alaska go a bit bonkers every spring...
This business of lots of dark is of course something that gets discussed up here in some detail... by those who have not lived here long, and almost not at all by people who were born here or have lived here for years.
I personally am not much affected by hours of daylight. I have always preferred to be a nightowl. When I worked a 4 PM to midnight shift, I never used an alarm clock and was never late for work.
But rain causes me all sorts of problems. If three drops come down, I want to go to bed! One reason I love Barrow is the average rain fall here is amost too small to measure. Including the snow, we get an "equivalent rain fall" of 4.6 inches annually. Most of that is the two or three feet of snow.
But... one thing to note about SAD is that it usually is not the hours of darkness that are a problem, but rather the spring time transition from lots of dark to lots of light. People all across Alaska go a bit bonkers every spring...
I hear ya, Floyd. I don't think the shorter days bother me much. It isn't the lack of light in length of days but rather the lack of sun. I did lots of shift work in the military, so I know it has nothing to do with day or night. It's that constant "mizzle" (mist + drizzle) we get, coupled with those low-hanging, almost drippy clouds for days on end that gets to me.
I've lived all over the place, so I honestly didn't think it would be a big deal. i remember hearing all the horror stories about Seattle "It always rains." blah blah and i thought it was a bunch of hooey, mainly because weather just didn't affect me before. You know, at first I thought "Great. Rainy days and the winter/rainy season will allow me to do things/projects and be productive." But I got indoctrinated into the whole PacNW coastal deal, and what that means is when it rains, especially for days on end, you don't HAVE any motivation to do anything, and when there's a break in the weather, you're outside enjoying it. This could be why it's taken me so long to get things done. If it's not raining or the sun is out, I'm out. Whereas everywhere i've lived previously, I could stay inside on a sunny day if something needed to get done and didn't feel like I was missing much because "there will be more sunny days." Here, the sun is like gold. Of course, I fell in love with SE AK and it has similar weather, so I know it's a no no.
I remember when I was in Juneau, i was talking to a woman whose son was born there, and she said he suffered from SAD but she did not, and she came from the -48, so I tend to think that the "if you're born there you don't suffer from it" isn't always true. I really just think some people are more sensitive to light than others, and it makes no difference how busy or active you are. I know people who fall into this category.
You see, I am so hard-headed and "oh that's just whiney, sissy stuff" sort of gal when it comes to stuff like ADD, ADHD, SAD, even allergies, that i have to be hit in the head with them to become a believer. I remember my ex husband sneezing and complaining of allgergies when we lived in Hawaii and I teased him for being a pansy. Well, when we moved back to Texas, guess who got allergies to pollen? Yep!
As a fairly recent Southern California escapee myself, I think I can definitely relate to what you are saying. My wife and I couldn’t wait to get away from California for all the same reasons you mentioned; smog, traffic, heat, weather, rude people, etc. Since being up here, neither one of us have ever had to worry about depression during the winter for one major reason – we’re just too darn excited to be here (and free of California).
The way I see it, what’s there to get depressed about? Winters up here are magic! Well, actually all the other seasons are too, but winter is particularly beautiful. As mentioned before, Alaska enjoys many crystal clear days during the winter and the scenery, even from the center of the city can be breathtaking. Even on days of inclement weather there is enough variation to keep things interesting. As you undoubtedly know, most people not from the southwest find it hard to believe, but 300 days per year of sunny weather is incredibly monotonous and boring! Even as I’m writing this, 30 minutes ago the sun was dancing through the clouds, but now as I look out my study window, the fog has moved in and enveloped the landscape in white mist.
I’d be willing to bet that much of the depression you describe is due to where you live. You say you’ve had it all you’re life – well, you’ve lived all your life in California too! Hmmm…a connection perhaps? Before I left California, I was miserable all of the time as well. Now my outlook has changed 180º, in the winter, spring, summer, and fall! Like you, I’m somewhat an introvert, and it’s easy up here to go off and find all of the space and solitude one could ever want, yet still return to Anchorage and have all of the modern conveniences.
Look at it this way, maybe you were just born in the wrong place and now you’re finally willing to make the right move. IMO, Alaska will be the best medication you could ever take. You won’t have time to get depressed because you’ll be too busy living and loving the “Great Land”!
As a fairly recent Southern California escapee myself, I think I can definitely relate to what you are saying. My wife and I couldn’t wait to get away from California for all the same reasons you mentioned; smog, traffic, heat, weather, rude people, etc. Since being up here, neither one of us have ever had to worry about depression during the winter for one major reason – we’re just too darn excited to be here (and free of California).
The way I see it, what’s there to get depressed about? Winters up here are magic! Well, actually all the other seasons are too, but winter is particularly beautiful. As mentioned before, Alaska enjoys many crystal clear days during the winter and the scenery, even from the center of the city can be breathtaking. Even on days of inclement weather there is enough variation to keep things interesting. As you undoubtedly know, most people not from the southwest find it hard to believe, but 300 days per year of sunny weather is incredibly monotonous and boring! Even as I’m writing this, 30 minutes ago the sun was dancing through the clouds, but now as I look out my study window, the fog has moved in and enveloped the landscape in white mist.
I’d be willing to bet that much of the depression you describe is due to where you live. You say you’ve had it all you’re life – well, you’ve lived all your life in California too! Hmmm…a connection perhaps? Before I left California, I was miserable all of the time as well. Now my outlook has changed 180º, in the winter, spring, summer, and fall! Like you, I’m somewhat an introvert, and it’s easy up here to go off and find all of the space and solitude one could ever want, yet still return to Anchorage and have all of the modern conveniences.
Look at it this way, maybe you were just born in the wrong place and now you’re finally willing to make the right move. IMO, Alaska will be the best medication you could ever take. You won’t have time to get depressed because you’ll be too busy living and loving the “Great Land”!
Thanks for the positive outlook.I totally agree that the California lifestyle is a major factor in my depression.People are just A-holes here, okay not all people but its so busy and narcissistic and competitive .Even for small things like finding a parking spot can be a huge fight.Im a laid back easygoing ,intellectual (I hope)person.
I think if you havent lived in my area of California it is hard to understand that the air quality is so bad that it can be very dreary in the middle of summer here too.Ive seen pictures of Alaska in the winter and the snow is bright and the sky is clear, when I look outside here in the 94 degree weather today and I cant even see the mountains clearly because of pollution.Its not blue either its brown!I think that is way worse than clouds and hazziness.
For one thing I am a major nature lover, I love to camp and fish and hike and all of that stuff, but where can I enjoy all that here?Theres concrete as far as the eye can see, and no fish in the lakes , and who wants to camp in a crowded campsite in 100 degree weather?
Im not saying I know for sure that the lack of sun will bother me or not, but I think as long as the air is clean and clear I will be happy, but It is a scary thing with the problems I already have, my mental health is and has to be my top priority.
I had the same problem. Since being on a lower carb (no sugar, white flour, junk food) natural food diet I feel much better.
It's impossible to get enough Vit D at such high latitudes from sunlight exposure during the winter. Make sure you supplement with 5000 IU D3 (yes, 5000, that's way higher than most "experts" suggest) daily. Most people are deficient anyway because they don't get enough sun exposure.
I had the same problem. Since being on a lower carb (no sugar, white flour, junk food) natural food diet I feel much better.
It's impossible to get enough Vit D at such high latitudes from sunlight exposure during the winter. Make sure you supplement with 5000 IU D3 (yes, 5000, that's way higher than most "experts" suggest) daily. Most people are deficient anyway because they don't get enough sun exposure.
Oh I agree on the vit D. I didn't know I was deficient until I read an article that stated one of the signs of vit D deficiency was bruises not healing. I hadn't had problems with this in the past and then when I moved to a higher latitude, bingo, bruises staying purple forever.
Kim - I have been diagnosed with major depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, and I'm autistic (Asperger's). I don't suffer from SAD in the winter darkness, but I did have lots of problems with the summer's constant daylight. I actually did better in AK with my "issues" than I have in other parts of the country (Seattle and the Carolina's have been the worst). Here's what I found helped with the winter and summer:
1) Full-spectrum light boxes for the winter - 30 mins a day works great
2) Take extra Vitamin D supplements in the winter -- RDA is 400 IU, that is TOO LOW, check with your doctor to see if you can take 10,000 IU a day (you CAN get a toxic overdose of Vit D, but they estimate that 30 mins of sunlight generates 10,000 IU, so that level should be safe if your blood levels aren't too high already).
3) Keep your body and brain active in the winter - when the moon is full and there is snow out, it's almost as bright as daylight! If you can't get out and be physical, keep your brain working inside... do puzzles, work on a hobby, read books, play games, whatever... just don't sit there and ruminate or you will go stir crazy and increase your risk for major depression and cabin fever.
4) If you take medication for your depression, discuss with your doc about increasing your dosage, switching to a different med, or augmenting with an additional med in the winter... this sometimes helps.
5) As mentioned, keep a normal sleep pattern! Nap if you're tired, don't nap when you're bored! I suggest getting an outlet timer that you can plug a light (any light) into and set it to come one are your normal wake up time. This one really helped me!
6) Try to limit alcohol and heavy carbs in the winter... both of these can mess up your metabolism, blood sugar levels and mood if you're sensitive.
7) Get plenty of fresh air! Even if it's only stepping out on your porch for a few minutes. Try opening the windows on the warmer days too. I don't know why this works, but maybe the air quality inside gets a bit bad and that triggers physical/psychological issues.
8) In the summer - get really thick blinds and/or black-out curtains. You have to sleep or you will go nuts. Do whatever you have to in order to make your bedroom as dark as possible during your "sleeping hours".
9) Keep a regular sleep schedule, just like in the winter. Your body is going to try to stay awake because the sun is up... don't let it! Fighting this urge is essential for anyone who suffers from depression... ask your doc about taking sleep meds if you have to.
10) Get as much physical exercise as you can during the "day"... get thoroughly exhausted and you'll sleep better at "night".
11) Get earplugs if you're sensitive to noise when you sleep... birds/animals and people will be out making noise because it's still light.
All-in-all, I don't think that AK is off-limits to you just because you suffer from depression/mood disorders. You just have to be mindful and take steps to help yourself through times that could be detrimental. I did MUCH better in AK than anywhere else, probably because there are less people and not as much "social stress" (I'm an Introvert, too). Since you have family around, I think you'll do just fine and will stay active. If you're concerned, it's probably better to be near them regardless of the seasonal day/night hours in that location. At least you won't be totally alone and there are more people to look out for you if you go a bit bonkers for a while!
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