Sarah Palin's Garage Sale (condo, camps, dangerous)

[JohnPF]

I've heard on public radio a discussion about those town hall meetings and how insurance co's are sending in people to criticise the plans, make it seem like the whole America doesn't want it...

[Pawdog]

Originally Posted by JohnPF

I've heard on public radio a discussion about those town hall meetings and how insurance co's are sending in people to criticise the plans, make it seem like the whole America doesn't want it...

Public radio is more liberal than CNN, and equal to Air America.......Funny that polls show 86% of Americans are satisfied with their present health care, and 60% disapprove of the messiah's plans to change to socialized medicine.

[Pawdog]

Originally Posted by notreesininceland

Pawdog,

So a crazy LaRouche Democrat rants and accuses Obama of advancing a Nazi policy. SO? What about the HUNDREDS of rightwing nuts who are doing the same all across the country?

For someone who claims to set the record straight you are remarkably loose with it. The Speaker did not accuse just any protester of being fascists and Nazis. She called out those who are showing up with swastikas, Hitler images etc and called that behaviour un-American (which it is) and so on. Such protestors need to be condemned and I applaud the Speaker for that.

Where's your proof hundreds of "rightwing nuts" are carrying nazi images? Got a link to the Pelosi propaganda?? Pelosi is an insane, lying old hag has-been, who spends the tax payers money like water on private jets and lavish hotels. Pelosi is the one who is un-American! She won't be seeing another term for sure!

[JavaPhil]

Right or left, wing-nuts are a fact of life in general and politics in specific. Nothing seems to bring out the worst in people more than religion and politics. Rhetoric becomes inflated, and people make baseless comments on both sides. It gets a little boring when you see the same people on opposite sides of the fence and you come to expect the comments that will later show up.

I remember a time when this was not the way politics was discussed. Dems and GOP'rs would actually talk across the aisle and get something done. Nowadays, most of the folks vote the party line. It seems that it's the only way they can count on any support at all.

Health care and social security are the danger points in today's politics. War problems aside. Now, people are less willing to hear what the other side is saying. We are falling into the rhetoric of our respective parties, and failing at understanding.

There are 50 million people without health care in the US. That would seem to be a hard fact. If this is so, it is the highest percentage of uninsured people in the indutrialized world.

Personally, I find that a sad commentary on the state of health care in the US. JMO.

Yes, I know the cost. I am appalled at the state of medical schools in the US. The cost of educating and training doctors has gone through the roof. Malpractice insurance has also raised the cost of medecine. Our infant mortality rate is one of the worst in nations with advanced medical care. Hell, the best that we can boast is that we have the most advanced medecine and the worst record in medical mistakes.

Am I confused? Conflicted?

Yep.

Am I siding up with anyone?

Nope. I want to know, what are the costs? What will be the coverage? Who will be covered?

I want it in black and white. I want it on video, and I need it before I can make up my mind. Then I will have something like an informed opinion.

[notreesininceland]

Originally Posted by JavaPhil

I want it in black and white. I want it on video, and I need it before I can make up my mind. Then I will have something like an informed opinion.

I applaud JavaPhil for this admirable standard he has set for himself. I only wish he had in place a similar standard when fratboy and his cohorts lied their way to an unnecessary war that we paid for in a lot of American blood and treasure.

I find the emergence of the ultra-alert citizen coinciding with the Dems holding power in Congress and the Executive a little curious. Must be a random occurrence.

[JavaPhil]

Strange, I did. Obviously, you have mistaken me for someone else. I didn't vote for the man either time. Unless, of course, someone else voted in my name. I have had this standard for at least 20 years. I have followed this standard for decency, and for my own sense of self worth. I have stated on this forum that I support the war in Afghanistan, and am opposed to the war in Iraq. Have I mis-stated my opposition in any post?

I have also stated that I thought that Bush II was uninformed and misguided. I am sure of this. I believe that notrees has made a mistake in his comments concerning my political stance. I would expect an apology, but I have never seen him admit to a mistake. If you think I am writing this while extremely ticked, you're probably right. I HATE getting into these little arguments, but I refuse to be labelled as a non-thinking moron.

[notreesininceland]

Mal,

I have never called you nor implied that you are a "non-thinking moron."

I stand corrected about your record.

[JohnPF]

Originally Posted by Pawdog

Public radio is more liberal than CNN, and equal to Air America.......Funny that polls show 86% of Americans are satisfied with their present health care, and 60% disapprove of the messiah's plans to change to socialized medicine.

Your language, and your location match perfect. Total party line, zero objectivism...

[Tundra Boy]

Originally Posted by JavaPhil

Right or left, wing-nuts are a fact of life in general and politics in specific. Nothing seems to bring out the worst in people more than religion and politics. Rhetoric becomes inflated, and people make baseless comments on both sides. It gets a little boring when you see the same people on opposite sides of the fence and you come to expect the comments that will later show up.

I remember a time when this was not the way politics was discussed. Dems and GOP'rs would actually talk across the aisle and get something done. Nowadays, most of the folks vote the party line. It seems that it's the only way they can count on any support at all.

Health care and social security are the danger points in today's politics. War problems aside. Now, people are less willing to hear what the other side is saying. We are falling into the rhetoric of our respective parties, and failing at understanding.

There are 50 million people without health care in the US. That would seem to be a hard fact. If this is so, it is the highest percentage of uninsured people in the indutrialized world.

Personally, I find that a sad commentary on the state of health care in the US. JMO.

Yes, I know the cost. I am appalled at the state of medical schools in the US. The cost of educating and training doctors has gone through the roof. Malpractice insurance has also raised the cost of medecine. Our infant mortality rate is one of the worst in nations with advanced medical care. Hell, the best that we can boast is that we have the most advanced medecine and the worst record in medical mistakes.

Am I confused? Conflicted?

Yep.

Am I siding up with anyone?

Nope. I want to know, what are the costs? What will be the coverage? Who will be covered?

I want it in black and white. I want it on video, and I need it before I can make up my mind. Then I will have something like an informed opinion.

Great post mal, but... 'health care' and 'health insurance' are not interchangeable terms.

Not picking nits at all, but those 2 terms have been swapped around until they have become one and same in many peoples arguments.


regards,
TB

[Captain Crunch]

Originally Posted by notreesininceland

Elementary errors in thought and logic, my dear fellow. Allow me to dust off some of the cobwebs in the interstices of your mind.

Elections are not held at "arbitrary" points. You don't change policy depending on which way the poll wind is blowing on any given day or week. That would be stupid not to mention disastrous. You can vote out people you don't like and "unshove" what was "shoved" down your throat.

About your second point - Frat Boy didn't win in 2000. He was crowned by the Supreme Court.

Also, I did not say Pat cannot complain, protest, demonstrate, make her voice heard etc etc. All that is very healthy in a democracy. I just don't buy her "shoved down the throat" line apropos of health care reform. It shows that at the very least she is ill-informed.

And by the way, Frat Boy did shove a war down our throat, and before doing so, he shoveled a great deal of lies too, to get us to swallow the war tonic. We paid for that "shove" in blood and treasure, and a great deal of economic misery.

To make a judgement about Obama one way or the other, you will have to wait a few years.

Great post notrees....too damn bad it will go right over the heads of several here...!

Some rep points are coming right up for ya.....