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“Rebellious province” is the official terminology of the CCP, sorry didn’t mean to imply you said that
Ideologues will find a point or a single word to pick at to obfuscate the fact that they are on the losing side of an argument, whether it's relevant or not, and then attempt to try to discount your entire premise based on that purposeful misinterpretation.
You asked, quite clearly, whether Taiwan was at any point under CCP control and then broke away - trying to make an argument of the semantics as to whether it was a "rebellion" or not or whatever is pointless - and then you posited that because the CCP never controlled Taiwan, it has no provenance over whether it is independent or not. It's pretty clear.
“Rebellious province” is the official terminology of the CCP, sorry didn’t mean to imply you said that
fair enough, I do agree that the CCP has never control of taiwan. the KMT barely have more controlled over it through force and bloodshed.
I also want to point out in your timeline, the formation date of the "republic of china" i don't really agree with. It was the KMT's trick to try to fool people.
because that version of "republic of china" would have already ended twice already. Once was a warlord get the qing emperor back to beijing and officially restored the qing dynasty for a short time.
and then another time when yuan shi kai self declared emperor of china and started a new dynasty. As a result, the "republic of china" that you know today, actually started after the northern expedition that allowed the KMT to unite the whole country (sort of). That happened long after the creation of the CCP and Sun's death. Not to mention that this victory and northern expedition would not be possible without the aid of the soviets and CCP. did you know about that?
So today we just saw Russia invade Ukraine. Russia had no legitimate reason for doing so. America and the rest of Europe have pretty much indicated that they will not fight for Ukraine inspite of the fact that they have tens of thousands of troops stationed right there in Europe. Putin will take the Ukraine and all the West could come up with was bleating about some sanctions, like that means anything to Putin.
The parallel with Taiwan should be obvious to everyone. China will have been watching the Ukraine drama very carefully. It now knows that if the West would not save Ukraine, then there is no way in hell that anyone is coming to save Taiwan even though there are tens of thousands of American soldiers based nearby in Korea and Japan. The West has no appetite for war. If I'm Taiwan, this is panic time.
What a difference a week makes, huh?
In just a few days Ukraine became the final nail in the coffin of Chinese military adventurism in Taiwan.
Fortunately, people on both sides of the straight understand that China gains nothing from attacking Taiwan--even in a (now shown to be impossible) best-case scenario--and Taiwan gains little from declaring independence.
Prior to Ukraine Russia and China thought the citizens of democracies were weak, only interested in money, and that they would roll over or lay down their arms in the face of invasion.
Whoops.
So now China is very quietly (and quickly) abandoning the counter-axis to the West that they were courting with Putin as he flounders in Ukraine and turns his country into a global pariah.
Meanwhile, the Taiwan Greens have turned down their independence rhetoric and are taking careful note of how to harden their country against attack, and just how long you need to hold off an invader.
The senseless bloodbath in Ukraine is very instructive to both sides. Now that the Ukrainians have shown how modern citizens of democracies can, and will, stand up and fight a vastly larger invading power, nobody wants to bring that sort of nightmare to the PRC and ROC. Turns out that 1st world countries can be even more of a quagmire as those of the third world!
In just a few days Ukraine became the final nail in the coffin of Chinese military adventurism in Taiwan.
Fortunately, people on both sides of the straight understand that China gains nothing from attacking Taiwan--even in a (now shown to be impossible) best-case scenario--and Taiwan gains little from declaring independence.
Prior to Ukraine Russia and China thought the citizens of democracies were weak, only interested in money, and that they would roll over or lay down their arms in the face of invasion.
Whoops.
So now China is very quietly (and quickly) abandoning the counter-axis to the West that they were courting with Putin as he flounders in Ukraine and turns his country into a global pariah.
Meanwhile, the Taiwan Greens have turned down their independence rhetoric and are taking careful note of how to harden their country against attack, and just how long you need to hold off an invader.
The senseless bloodbath in Ukraine is very instructive to both sides. Now that the Ukrainians have shown how modern citizens of democracies can, and will, stand up and fight a vastly larger invading power, nobody wants to bring that sort of nightmare to the PRC and ROC. Turns out that 1st world countries can be even more of a quagmire as those of the third world!
Well the lessons of Ukraine I think are limited to Russia. Putin bit off more than he can chew, but I don't think that is because of any action from the west. The west is still perceived as weak as a result of limited sanctions that have little effectiveness, a country like Germany that made themselves dependent on Russia oil, there is NATO who the cheapskates in Europe refuse to fund, reliant as they always will be for the US to save there worthless ass, and of course Sleepy Joe who has no idea what he should do. Rather, it's because the people of Ukraine are fighting back tooth and nail, it's also because Ukraine is well stocked with technologically superior weapons from the west - stingers, modern generation anti-tank missiles, manpads, cruise missiles, that can be delivered effectively even with limited manpower. Russia has always been dependent on mass armor, that's been there military doctrine since the cold war, forgetting that one small team with NLAWs can devastate an armored column.
The lessons that Xi should take back is that Taiwan will not be a walk in the park.
Interesting how many posters in other threads were believing China would attack Taiwan at the same time Russia attacked Ukraine. Well, that didn't happen. Could be because gasp, China is a country that prioritizes peace, as opposed to the Europeans and their colonial offshoots that seem to love war yet somehow think of themselves as peaceful people while everyone else are savages. Go figure.
Well the lessons of Ukraine I think are limited to Russia. Putin bit off more than he can chew, but I don't think that is because of any action from the west. The west is still perceived as weak as a result of limited sanctions that have little effectiveness, a country like Germany that made themselves dependent on Russia oil, there is NATO who the cheapskates in Europe refuse to fund, reliant as they always will be for the US to save there worthless ass, and of course Sleepy Joe who has no idea what he should do. Rather, it's because the people of Ukraine are fighting back tooth and nail, it's also because Ukraine is well stocked with technologically superior weapons from the west - stingers, modern generation anti-tank missiles, manpads, cruise missiles, that can be delivered effectively even with limited manpower. Russia has always been dependent on mass armor, that's been there military doctrine since the cold war, forgetting that one small team with NLAWs can devastate an armored column.
The lessons that Xi should take back is that Taiwan will not be a walk in the park.
Not trying to defend Russia, but this image of Ukrainian citizens picking up weapons and fighting the Russians on the battlefield directly isn't true. It's part of psychological warfare. If it were true, then Russia wouldn’t be in possession of large amounts of Ukraine territory. The playbook isn't new, it's the same playbook utilized by Vietcong in their fight against the Americans. Appears Ukraine forces are basically concentrating their efforts on defending their prime cities. Russia is trying to get a feel for their defensive capabilities. It's part of siege warfare. I pray Putin inner circle practices restraint and just go home, for if it escalates to urban combat with the use of deadly sophisticated weapons, the death toll will be enormous.
Not trying to defend Russia, but this image of Ukrainian citizens picking up weapons and fighting the Russians on the battlefield directly isn't true. It's part of psychological warfare. If it were true, then Russia wouldn’t be in possession of large amounts of Ukraine territory. The playbook isn't new, it's the same playbook utilized by Vietcong in their fight against the Americans. Appears Ukraine forces are basically concentrating their efforts on defending their prime cities. Russia is trying to get a feel for their defensive capabilities. It's part of siege warfare. I pray Putin inner circle practices restraint and just go home, for if it escalates to urban combat with the use of deadly sophisticated weapons, the death toll will be enormous.
Oh I know, I don't picture civilians fighting in the streets or fields with AK47s, that's just silly talk. We are far from that stage - house to house fighting - if it were ever to occur. Casualty figures have been relatively light for what is a full scale invasion. Putin is focusing it's efforts on command centers and military installations currently, waiting for Ukraine to fold like a house of cards I think. But that hasn't happened. That effort is high tech, swift attacks with mobility, air, fire and forget weapons. For that, technology rules the day, and Putin has the manpower and arms, but not the superior technology. At this stage it's not man vs. man, it's machine vs. machine. We are told that Putin's timetable is off but who knows. His manpower advantage will still overcome all in the end I think.
But this is the China forum, and Taiwan is not Ukraine, nor is China Russia. Yes in this thread I think I remember someone saying that China would coordinate invading Taiwan with the Ukraine invasion, during the olympics of all times. Just silly talk.
Now that the Ukrainians have shown how modern citizens of democracies can, and will, stand up and fight a vastly larger invading power, nobody wants to bring that sort of nightmare to the PRC and ROC. Turns out that 1st world countries can be even more of a quagmire as those of the third world!
PRC and ROC, that's fine. The point is that they are both C. The former C wants to make sure the latter C remains a C, and not turn into a T or an A.
Interesting how many posters in other threads were believing China would attack Taiwan at the same time Russia attacked Ukraine. Well, that didn't happen. Could be because gasp, China is a country that prioritizes peace, as opposed to the Europeans and their colonial offshoots that seem to love war yet somehow think of themselves as peaceful people while everyone else are savages. Go figure.
Or it could be because, gasp, China realizes that it wouldn't be able to take over Taiwan in a swift and deft fashion, would get a severe licking, and watch its economy implode!!
They have plenty of bellicose propaganda that threatens violence, they have patriotic war films... Spare me the goofy orientalist apologism about "prioritizing peace."
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