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Herein we get an admission that a 'militant atheist' is merely one that doesn't hide in the atheist closet.
Every third corner has a church. Jesus fish and myriad other religious affirmations adorn cars. Crucifixes hang from necks with regularity. There are entire channels on television devoted to Christianity. Yet an atheist has the temerity to merely acknowledge his or her atheism, and it's militancy.
Tom: "I go to church every Sunday."
Julian: [silent]
Dick: "God bless America."
Julian: [silent]
Harry: "I'm an atheist".
Julian: "Militant! Militant! We got a militant here!"
But, yes, I must agree that your phobia of self-applying the label atheist is likely rooted in a fear of being associated with your strawman caricature of atheists.
That is a great analysis. I have to admit I do not want to be an open atheist.
But, I am also a bit turned off by in your face Evangelical Christians. Maybe is the "in your face attitude". I would hate to live in the bible belt. I have a Mormon friend that was heavily put down by the Evangelicals.
I also worry about freedom and tolerance of others. It is easy to become a bit intolerant when a person thinks they have the high road. Non-believers can be as intolerant as believers. Thankfully, this condition has nothing to do with religion or atheism.
Certainly not your mind However, the thread is about a particular piece of legislation and discussion is probably academic or at least speculative. What it gets through and in what shape and whether it works will have to be seen. So you may as well do a derail
No, but it is something that you can do rather than avoid the 'atheist' label altogether. You can say that you are actually atheist but not a 'new' Atheist - certainly not Militant. You are far from the only one. As usual, we don't demand that you to work with us, but would prefer that you don't work against us.
Ps.
You take the view (as i recall) that our efforts aren't necessary - the decline in religion was bound to happen anyway. I'm not so sure. i have a theory. That if Muslim doubters came out as strongly as new Atheism has done, you'd see that problem suddenly start to deflate rapidly.
Arab atheists are around, but things are more dangerous for them.
Religious disbelief is viewed with alarm in most Arab countries. Two government ministries in Egypt have been ordered to produce a national plan to “confront and eliminate” atheism. In Saudi Arabia, the most recent anti-terrorism law classifies “calling for atheist thought” as a terrorist offence.
This hounding of non-believers might seem especially strange at a time when concerns are high about those who kill in the name of religion, but Arab societies have a general aversion to nonconformity, and the regimes that rule them often promote an official version of Islam that suits their political needs. Thus both jihadism and atheism – though very different in character – are viewed as forms of social or political deviance, with fears raised in the Arab media that those who reject God and religion will bring chaos and immorality if their ideas gain a foothold.
In six Arab countries – Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, the United Arab Emirates and Yemen – apostasy is punishable by death. There have been no executions in recent years, but people deemed to have “insulted” religion, often in trivial ways, can face long prison sentences.
Arab atheists are becoming more visible, largely due to social media. There is also a perception that their numbers are growing. In 2012 a poll by WIN/Gallup International that looked at religion in 57 countries caused particular alarm in Saudi Arabia, which, as the birthplace of Islam, claims to be the holiest of the Arab countries. Of those interviewed there, 19 percent said they were not religious and 5 percent described themselves as convinced atheists.
No, you wouldn't, and I say that from experience as an immigrant myself who sees the immigrants that went before me and those that came after me. There is nothing truer than 'Birds of a feather, flock together.' The British did it in their colonies and the French, Dutch and Spanish did it in theirs. The British are doing it in Spain as we speak, as are the Russians, Chinese, French, Germans and Dutch that have moved here - just like the Spanish that have moved to the UK to live and work have formed 'colonies' where they all live and socialise together - because that is what 'birds of a feather' do, and it is what you would do also.
So don't give us that old tripe about striding out and integrating because you wouldn't. Your great-grandchildren will be here before you will see any sign of integration in your line.
Self-segregating and doing your own thing in private life is not the same thing as demanding society adapt to your foreign ways or that basic rules that apply to everyone not apply to you.
Self-segregating and doing your own thing in private life is not the same thing as demanding society adapt to your foreign ways or that basic rules that apply to everyone not apply to you.
That is what I meant when I said: "When in Rome do as the Romans".
I think religion needs to be stopped, particularly evangelical Christians and Fundie Muslims. But, the cultural component is totally harmless. A couple of militant atheists said they sing in a Christian choir.
I agree the cultural component without prejudice to others and no privilege to the original. That's been said. That's with the process of removing Christian influence that really began with taking religious indoctrination out of schools. 'New' atheism rather countered the efforts to ram it down our throats using every other medium.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658
Forgot to add:
You guys are a bit late to the party. The men of the enlightenment took care of the most serious issues. Even Luther fixed a lot of crappy things. We need activist Arabic Atheists, they would be gold.
Lastly, the need for religion was universal among primitive cultures. It was a necessary evil. What is astounding is that some religious people in the planet are stuck in medieval times.
If you think the job was done in the enlightenment, you are much mistaken. Britain slipped back from the rollicking and irreverent Regency to the Bible thumping preaching of the Victorians. And the US has become sorta census -Christian by the twenties but then the red scare poured the blood into the old vampire and out it came, sucking the blood and spreading the infection. -brought over here by the Evangelical Typhoid Mary, Billy Graham, and while being defeated by the Internet, is still ready to infect us again with our Creationist vice -president in waiting, the idiot Gove.
No. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. And the only thing needed to allow the danger of religion to succeed is for atheists to remain silent.
That, Julian, mate, is why the message from the opponents of 'new' atheism right from the start has always and ever been "Please shut up and go away" in many different words. We translate that bit of theist into English right away.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 06-30-2019 at 10:08 PM..
In Canada (except in Quebec), when people discuss this the consensus is usually that there are no "Romans" in Canada.
Everything is up for grabs and debate. A clean slate if you will.
Oublions les Romains, au Québec, ils rejettent tout ce qui n'est pas français.
But if they just kept quiet no one would know that there are atheists in the Muslim world. Isn't that the preferred stance.
It is the danger that is keeping them very quiet. In fact, apart from a few women who have spoken out pretty damn' bravely, and a few phone -in to Atheist Experience, explaining what's its like to live in a culture where being atheist can get you jailed or killed, the rumbles mainly came from Muslim clerics who revealed their worries about the amount of irreligion there is in the Muslim world.
It is my great regret that we don't have a Muslim atheist thread on AA as I reckon it is much needed.
P.s. Anyone remember the 'Haram police?'
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