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What do scientists have to do with it? Christ's existence has never been verified by any historian, and the debate goes on.
No one has the slightest physical evidence to support a historical Jesus; no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people. There occurs no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus. Devastating to historians, there occurs not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus. All documents about Jesus got written well after the life of the alleged Jesus by unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus.
I have read that Jesus and Prophet Mohammed are distant cousins. So, Prophet Mohammed also didnt exist?
Yes, I believe Jesus was a real person - a master teacher much like Ghandi and Buddha. He was a mortal person like all of us. His teachings resonated with many people across the lands he travelled. Many men found his teachings threatening because his philosophy encompassed finding our own divine energy from within rather than allowing us to be much like a herd following the latest ruler who would control us. Our mind is a tool to be used by each of us not by others. Following his death, his teachings became deviated and muddled at the hand of man who where looking to control the masses. Enter Christianity.....shortly followed by a multitude of denominations to go with it. All created by man who thought they were interpreting the word of God (interpretation being highly subjective and under the influence of the interpreter's mind). I believe all religions have sparks of the original teachings of these masters (Jesus, Buddha) it's just gotten lost along the way - ultimately, each of us needs to go within to find divine peace, joy and connection to the universal energy that connects us all.
If you only believe he was a nice teacher, you've got a flaw in his reasoning. He claimed to be God. So either he was God, or he was a lunatic and not a good teacher.
If you only believe he was a nice teacher, you've got a flaw in his reasoning. He claimed to be God. So either he was God, or he was a lunatic and not a good teacher.
Maybe he never claimed to be God. Maybe other people claimed that for him. We are discussing whether he even existed. Even assuming that he did: whether specific parts of the Bible are true or false is another issue altogether.
EDIT: one more option: maybe Jesus was a lunatic and a good teacher.
If you only believe he was a nice teacher, you've got a flaw in his reasoning. He claimed to be God. So either he was God, or he was a lunatic and not a good teacher.
The places in the bible where Jesus says I am the Father and the Father is me, etc......this book is written by men, not Jesus. The bible was not written by Jesus, but man who thought he was writing for Jesus and putting his own spin on things. And further, based on what my thoughts are on this - I interpret him saying I am the Father and the Father is me as we are all part of the same Source. I could say the same thing - you are me, I am you - we are all connected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfrank
EDIT: one more option: maybe Jesus was a lunatic and a good teacher.
If you only believe he was a nice teacher, you've got a flaw in his reasoning. He claimed to be God. So either he was God, or he was a lunatic and not a good teacher.
Either you've been reading C.S Lewis or read someone's work who has read C.S Lewis or read someone's work who read someone's work who read C.S Lewis. That was his argument, however, I believe Jesus existed and either he or the people who turned him into the son of God, resurrected savior of the world, creator of the universe, God almighty are the ones who needed to get their head checked and qualify as a lunatic, in my opinion.
I think he had his fan club who took him from human to go though, but who knows. he may have gone the way of David Koresh and had them believing the hype too.
The Testament presents uncorroborated evidence for Yeshua's acting as portrayed. I take it that he existed but without that corroboration for anything that he did or happened to him, people would be foolish as William Lane Craig is in his naivete that the Resurrection happened!
This claim about his existence or non-existence is not as decided as is the opposition to his dreadful teachings as the deist, Jako Miklos, declaims in " Confronting Believers," that he is just another cult leader. Why then should any rational person worship a jerk!
wktully, so true!
Let's argue the case then against his rants!Those rants reveal why for us he should have no existence as to follow!
I'll bite on this topic. I haven't read the entire thread yet, but I will later.
The evidence that Jesus existed is very dubious. Outside of the bible, there is no corraborating evidence during Jesus' life time. Of course, the New Testament was written nearly 200 years after his death. No one alive at that time, actually knew him. Pretty convenient. It is noted that there were nearly 30 contemporary historians in Jesus' time and none mention this man. Particularly troubling to christians is the historian Josephus who chronicled the lives of Jews during the Jesus era time frame. He wrote about ordinary people including thieves but there was not one mention of a Jesus.... that is until 400 years later when Christians rewrote Josephus' work! See the Testimonial Flavium interpolation for more info on this. Also troubling is that the Romans have no record of executing Jesus.
Most troubling to me though... no one remembers where Jesus' tomb is? How is this possible? We know where King Tut was buried but not Jesus Christ? Seems fishy.
I think a flesh and blood man named Jesus may have existed. Probably, he was a very wise and peaceful man, in the vain of MLK or Ghandi, or he was a composite of men that existed. If not, someone went through great pains to invent a story complete with teachings and adding strange quirks like -born in Bethlehem but lived in Nazareth. I believe his life and teachings may have been passed on as folklore prior to the New Testament writtings. Unfortunately, christians have a bad track record for embellishing! I'm thinking christians took up the story of Jesus(if not completely faked it) to make the prophecies of the Old Testament true and added the miracles and Son of God part.
It's pretty telling that Jews, god's chosen people, don't believe this ****-and-bull story either.
the Town of Nazareth didn't exist in the 1st century AD
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