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Dang, I just looked it up, and you are absolutely correct. He was the sixth governor of Pennsylvania and the first Postmaster General of the U.S. I doesn't surprise me that he became postmaster General, he was, after all, primarily a man of letters.
Not really governor. Technically, he was the sixth President of the Executive Council -- before political partisan was established.
Franklin was, indeed, the first Postmaster General.
.......what was the god that Franklin worshiped? and We do agree both of us would have liked to have been there and asked these questions.............
Considering what religion was like during Franklin's time, coupled with my opinion that he was a Deist, I really can't guess what kind of god he worshiped. He may have worshiped nature itself. Deists form their beliefs in morality and reject the Christian concept of Jesus Christ.
Since Franklin was a figure in the Age of Enlightenment, I would tend to believe that his religious beliefs were influenced by his self-awareness of reasoning and morality, rather than what was dictated by the Church.
You have to keep in mind that, during the formative years of the United States government (not including what happened centuries before), religion was not as it is today. It was not freely discussed, and Christian theories were widely rejected.
I don't know what book you are reading on Franklin, but one of the best I've read is Benjamin Franklin: An American Life, by Walter Isaacson.
Considering what religion was like during Franklin's time, coupled with my opinion that he was a Deist, I really can't guess what kind of god he worshiped. He may have worshiped nature itself. Deists form their beliefs in morality and reject the Christian concept of Jesus Christ.
Since Franklin was a figure in the Age of Enlightenment, I would tend to believe that his religious beliefs were influenced by his self-awareness of reasoning and morality, rather than what was dictated by the Church.
You have to keep in mind that, during the formative years of the United States government (not including what happened centuries before), religion was not as it is today. It was not freely discussed, and Christian theories were widely rejected.
I don't know what book you are reading on Franklin, but one of the best I've read is Benjamin Franklin: An American Life, by Walter Isaacson.
Religion was most certainly discussed in the 18th century. Most people in the colonies were one sort of christian or another. Several of the "founding fathers" were not christian and were quite vocal about it - discussing religion quite a lot.
What was really different then was that the government sponsored and supported certain christian denominations and could punish people for not adhering to the rules of the religion. Such abuses (which always occur whenever religion gains political control) were why we have the 2nd amendment to the constitution.
Worship is probably not an appropriate term to apply to a deist. Since the deist thinks there is some sort of god-thing that started things (no big bang theory back then) but then has no influence and no further activity in the world afterward - or just has a concept of nature = deity - worship is not exactly compatible with that view.
Religion was most certainly discussed in the 18th century. Most people in the colonies were one sort of christian or another. Several of the "founding fathers" were not christian and were quite vocal about it - discussing religion quite a lot.
Worship is probably not an appropriate term to apply to a deist. Since the deist thinks there is some sort of god-thing that started things (no big bang theory back then) but then has no influence and no further activity in the world afterward - or just has a concept of nature = deity - worship is not exactly compatible with that view.
For my clarification, when I state that it was not freely discussed as it is today, I mean that you weren't asked by a stranger what church you attend. I certainly believe religious theories, possibly beliefs, were discussed around the potbellied stove, but the approach may have been different than it is today.
As for your deist/worship explanation -- thank you. That is what I was trying to say, but couldn't seem to phrase it correctly.
For my clarification, when I state that it was not freely discussed as it is today, I mean that you weren't asked by a stranger what church you attend. I certainly believe religious theories, possibly beliefs, were discussed around the potbellied stove, but the approach may have been different than it is today.
That is probably true. It was prior to the evangelical movement that started in the early 19th century. Maybe they just had better manners.
Considering what religion was like during Franklin's time, coupled with my opinion that he was a Deist, I really can't guess what kind of god he worshiped. He may have worshiped nature itself. Deists form their beliefs in morality and reject the Christian concept of Jesus Christ.
Since Franklin was a figure in the Age of Enlightenment, I would tend to believe that his religious beliefs were influenced by his self-awareness of reasoning and morality, rather than what was dictated by the Church.
You have to keep in mind that, during the formative years of the United States government (not including what happened centuries before), religion was not as it is today. It was not freely discussed, and Christian theories were widely rejected.
I don't know what book you are reading on Franklin, but one of the best I've read is Benjamin Franklin: An American Life, by Walter Isaacson.
I read the congressional record which has Franklin saying .......they prayed and God Answered . Those were not the words of a Deist unless he was lying....so was Franklin changing is statement of belief for political gain?
I read the congressional record which has Franklin saying .......they prayed and God Answered . Those were not the words of a Deist unless he was lying....so was Franklin changing is statement of belief for political gain?
See my post below which you didn't understand or agree with. About 80% of communication is conveyed thru non-verbal means - facial and body expression, inflection, tone, etc. Did he say those words with a sneering or sarcastic voice or sincerely? We cannot know more than 200 years later without someone having written more about it.
I, for instance, like to quip things like "that's why god made annual leave." Am I lying since I don't believe in god? It is called a joke and I am being sarcastic. Anyone who hears me knows this because of all the non-verbal cues (+ the absurdity of the statement).
Many other things Franklin wrote indicate he had deist or maybe even atheist leanings. Taking one statement out of context does not reveal a person's true beliefs.
I read the congressional record which has Franklin saying .......they prayed and God Answered . Those were not the words of a Deist unless he was lying....so was Franklin changing is statement of belief for political gain?
Franklin lived in a world of politics, and than as now, politicians said what they thought the public wanted to hear. He knew as do all political leaders it is easier to govern a population through religious values than a population of free thinkers. This was why Constantine oversaw the formation of the Christian faith. And why many atheists see Christianity and the Catholic Church as a political organization, it is why Napoleon made statements on religion helping him rule his empire, and why Bush went after the religious right. Religion stops people from thinking beyond their little book. It excuses the atrocities and thus enslaves their minds.
ben franklins witty saying if that is what you are referring to re: wisdom are not alien to new england. prudence practical behavior and yankee ingenuity were very much in keeping with the people of new england of his time.
what made him a giant was his influence in france for 8 years --- now that was true wisdom and vision. to convince a king to help us revolt against another king is no small task.
In my reading and studying of the man, I have come to the conclusion that he was either agnostic or a Deist. I would lean more toward being a Deist, since he did worship a "god," though not the Christian God.
The founding fathers of our country were, for the most part, Unitarian. They believed in freedom of religion and were not Christians. The separation of church and state is critical -- we, as Americans (speaking to the topic of the founding fathers), are not all Christian and tolerance of non-Christian beliefs must not only be expected, it should be demanded.
I must also state that I am in no way a historian of any kind. I have, however, studied world religions purely for self-education for many years.
One last word about Franklin, he is definitely someone I would have hung out with. He was sociable, the life of the party, intelligent, and had a wry (and dry) sense of humor. I would expect that in his midlife to later years, he was quite the dirty old man. Just an observation.
maybe some people do not fit in your trick bag...........
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