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You are going off on tangent arguments and missing all of the arguments I am making.
We have been going through a period of CUTTING taxes and a period of CUTTING investments on infrastructure over the past several decades. Every time taxes are cut people go off ranting on how we need to cut taxes again and complain about how taxes went up (when they never went up).
We could never start a new public project today as big as the interstate system that has dramatically changed how our country operates and grows.
The generations before the baby boomers spent more on infrastructure and paid more in taxes.
You are turning this into an argument on the progressive taxation system (Which has always existed and is growing less progressive), but ignoring the fact that we keep cutting taxes.
That is the central root to what I am saying.
When people read your arguments they think taxes have been going up and the tax system is more progressive, but in reality the fact of the matter is the opposite is true.
"Your argument/vision seems to be that middle aged people are greedy and sitting back in their houses counting their money, laughing while poor people and old people die in the streets."
Also, I am sorry. I don't care what you SEEM to think my arguments are. I care what my arguments ACTUALLY ARE. That is why you don't understand me. You aren't listening to me and you are filling in what YOU THINK I am saying.
So yeah, the top 20% pay 69% of the taxes, but they have 93% of the country's money. The bottom 80% pay 31% of the taxes, but have only 7% of the money. Using a different graph, the bottom 40% don't even show up, but still pay 5%.
Please hold on while I feel bad for the ri..OK done. Maybe once those people making so much money and having to pay so many taxes actually start paying their lowly employees a livable wage, only then can we really start to even out the tax-payment responsibilities. If some big corporate CEO is going to pay his employees nothing while he gets paid hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars a year, then he's dug his own grave. When CEO salaries, and I'm sure managerial salaries as well, has skyrocketed in the last 15 years, average worker pay has gone up only 4.3% (while minimum wage has effectively gone down). Guess what...the lowest on the pole don't HAVE any money to pay because they aren't paid even close to a livable wage to LIVE. And that's the problem with this wonderful thing we call capitalism. The "market" has decided that CEOs need tens of millions of dollars a year to live, while the guy who keeps his whole office clean makes only $14,000 a year.
Hold on while I grab another tissue. I'm sure those that pay very little or nothing in taxes would LOVE to pay their fair share if it meant they got a fair, livable wage. But that will never happen.
A great deal of the interstates were built on the Baby Boomers' watch, as well as the interstates. And major airport and port additions. Schools and universities, city skylines, stadiums, office, you name it.
I'm not saying there's not a huge amount of work to do, but it's sort of bum rap to say the Baby Boomers haven't paid their share. They've been carrying the U.S. economy for 40 years.
That is arguable. But to be a little more precise, I disagree with your assertion.
According to the U.S. Census Bureau the babyboom generation are those who were born between 1946-1964. Most of the major societal improvements that started with FDR's New Deal programs in 1933 thru Eisenhower's interstate highway system in the 1950's and ending with Lyndon Baines Johnson's Great Society programs took place in that same timeframe.
Many of the babyboomers were not even of adult age to be able to pay taxes for those programs. Coincidently, the high tax rate(mostly on the extreme wealthy & corporations) that paid for these programs didn't start to go down until the babyboomers started asserting their own political voice in the 1980's with President Ronald Reagan. Interestingly enough government spending didn't (more specifically, government spending on foreign policy & defense).
Perhaps THAT is what is getting people all hot & bothered?
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57
A great deal of the interstates were built on the Baby Boomers' watch, as well as the interstates. And major airport and port additions. Schools and universities, city skylines, stadiums, office, you name it.
I'm not saying there's not a huge amount of work to do, but it's sort of bum rap to say the Baby Boomers haven't paid their share. They've been carrying the U.S. economy for 40 years.
Last edited by AcidSnake; 11-07-2010 at 05:54 PM..
A great deal of the interstates were built on the Baby Boomers' watch, as well as the interstates. And major airport and port additions. Schools and universities, city skylines, stadiums, office, you name it.
I'm not saying there's not a huge amount of work to do, but it's sort of bum rap to say the Baby Boomers haven't paid their share. They've been carrying the U.S. economy for 40 years.
Too bad our current suburban structure was built on their watch also.
Heck, I'm a Generation X'er and I'm still trying to sort things out myself! Hopefully people will wake up, Lafitte, especially if or when they realize that this two-party system of government is out-dated, very corrupt, & beyond reproach.
But it will take the younger generations like you & me who have a high awareness of our past, but not letting the past be the thief that robs us of the future. The younger generations must also have a better grasp of what their social-political system is about, and make the hard sacrifices that are necessary to reform it.
I don't know if my answer is a good one. Unfortunately, it's the best that I can offer at this point in time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte
This being the case, where will this leave Generation Y persons(those born in 1982 and after) such as me?
Last edited by AcidSnake; 11-07-2010 at 06:36 PM..
Heck, I'm a Generation X'er and I'm still trying to sort things out myself! Hopefully people will wake up, Lafitte, especially if or when they realize that this two-party system of government is out-dated, very corrupt, & beyond reproach.
But it will take the youger generations like you & me who have a high awareness of our past, but not letting the past be the thief that robs us of the future. The younger generations must also have a better grasp of what their social-political system is about, and make the hard sacrifices that are necessary to reform it.
I don't know if my answer is a good one. Unfortunately, it's the best that I can offer at this point in time.
There are many times where I feel like the only way things will get done right is if the younger persons raise some commotion. More and more I feel like those born between 1980-1988 are getting shafted alot more than anyone else and that it will be the younger persons such as us who will have to do everything. Personally, I don't know what will happen in the next 5 years. I can only guess.
Heck, I'm a Generation X'er and I'm still trying to sort things out myself! Hopefully people will wake up, Lafitte, especially if or when they realize that this two-party system of government is out-dated, very corrupt, & beyond reproach.
But it will take the younger generations like you & me who have a high awareness of our past, but not letting the past be the thief that robs us of the future. The younger generations must also have a better grasp of what their social-political system is about, and make the hard sacrifices that are necessary to reform it.
I don't know if my answer is a good one. Unfortunately, it's the best that I can offer at this point in time.
I'm border line Gen X and Gen Y. It isn't all doom and gloom. At any point in time our generation can start reinvesting.
At the end of the day my argument is about investing 2.5% of GDP in transportation infrastructure instead of a little over 1%.
What we will be missing is about 25% to 50% of what should have been invested over a couple of decades.
Transportation infrastructure is actually a small part of the budget, although usually a little bit bigger at the state level and much bigger at the local level. Most of the budget goes to social security, medicare, and defense. We can choose to get back some of the investment we want by lowering things like defense budgets.
I would start by arguing our generation loses out when things are going through good (non-recession/recovery times) and we have a national deficit. That is money future generations are essentially paying for current tax cuts/spending.
During recession/recovery times you expect the government to run a deficit, since they collect less taxes, since there is less economic activity and fewer people are working and you expect to pay more in welfare temporarily. Also, whether you agree or disagree with stimulus funding it is designed to be a one time deficit to improve the economy temporarily only.
Outside of that... our generation needs to get better at saying... if you guys don't pay for that war... or don't pay for that tax cut, then your essentially making future generations pay for spending of the current generation.
I am a little tired of some of the people who choose to whine and complain about deficits when there is a recession and a democrat is in office, but ignore it during normal times or times when there is a republican in office.
But to me that is why it is so important to hear political leaders say things like "how are you paying for those tax cuts." That a tax cut in itself does costs the country money.
The other thing we need to do is make our generation vote! If we voted the same amount as older generations, then politicians would be forced to act in a way that tries to achieve a vote from us. This means we need to convince more of us to vote, but also vote in all elections. Not just a presidential election, but midterm elections, local elections, and primary elections. Right now we are less represented as voters.
Yes, you younger adults need to get voting and participating in public life if you want to have a say.
Do those who think we baby boomers have shaped society responsibly approve of these figures:
The richest 1 percent of Americans now take home almost 24 percent of income, up from almost 9 percent in 1976.
C.E.O.’s of the largest American companies earned an average of 42 times as much as the average worker in 1980, but 531 times as much in 2001. Perhaps the most astounding statistic is this: From 1980 to 2005, more than four-fifths of the total increase in American incomes went to the richest 1 percent.
Sure, those numbers are from the New York Times (Nov 6, Nicholas Kristoff column), but are they incorrect? If not, why does anyone think these people need tax relief? Notice that last "astounding statistic" ... where's the trickle-down?
Yes, you younger adults need to get voting and participating in public life if you want to have a say.
Do those who think we baby boomers have shaped society responsibly approve of these figures:
The richest 1 percent of Americans now take home almost 24 percent of income, up from almost 9 percent in 1976.
C.E.O.’s of the largest American companies earned an average of 42 times as much as the average worker in 1980, but 531 times as much in 2001. Perhaps the most astounding statistic is this: From 1980 to 2005, more than four-fifths of the total increase in American incomes went to the richest 1 percent.
Sure, those numbers are from the New York Times (Nov 6, Nicholas Kristoff column), but are they incorrect? If not, why does anyone think these people need tax relief? Notice that last "astounding statistic" ... where's the trickle-down?
The way I look at it, if I'm make a high six figure salary(such as what CEO's get today), why would I need a tax break. It is interesting, and yet, somewhat scary, that the persons who make the most money complain about taxes, whereas, persons who are working class(well, most of them anyway) don't complain about them as much. If I am a millionaire, why am I going to worry about paying taxes? I would have enough money for it.
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