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While Toyota just chose DFW, Mercedes chose Atlanta, so it seems to be a pretty even competition. Dallas didn't take as big a hit during this last recession as Atlanta, so there is that to consider, but like I've mentioned in many other posts, I can't think of two cities in the country that are similar on so many fronts as Dallas and Atlanta.
Some of the decision might come down to location. Dallas made more sense for Toyota being an Asian company to centralize their NA operations a little more west, Mercedes being German likes Atlanta for being more central but a little more east. Texas is an attractive place for those wanting to flee the higher taxes and less corporate-friendly confines of California, Atlanta is seen in the same light for those based in the NE.
So, I don't know that Dallas has a huge edge on Atlanta. Atlanta has heavy rail which trumps DART's light rail. Dallas has a much better freeway network that trumps Atlanta's. Atlanta has Emory, Georgia Tech and Georgia State, DFW has SMU and TCU, two fine schools but not research universities. Cultural amenities... arts, museums, etc... a draw on some fronts but a win for DFW in that Fort Worth and Dallas both have excellent institutions. Atlanta has a stronger African American presence culturally and economically, Dallas a stronger Hispanic community.
Atlanta wins hands down on beauty of topography and closeness to mountains and beach.
Dallas has less infighting amongst counties and suburbs and core cities... much less actually. A better mindset for solving regional problems
Texas prides itself in no state income tax. But they make up for it in much higher property taxes.
Summary: I would say Dallas has an edge albeit only a slight one. I can't empirically say what it is exactly, but it lies somewhere in the things I mention above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77
Not substantially but on the whole, that's probable. They have a better road network, two major airports, possibly a more favorable corporate tax structure, and a workforce that's just as talented.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77
And there's their airports as well. Good summarization.
Thank you. Good points.
I wonder what could give a long-term/permanent edge to Atlanta...?
Without a doubt, better infrastructure--roads and MARTA.
Yes.
1. Beltline (transit component)
2. Commuter Rail to outer suburbs/exurbs (all 11 lines).
3. MARTA heavy rail or light metro to Emory/Northlake, Cumberland, Windward, and Maynard Jackson Terminal.
4. MARTA heavy rail and/or light metro to mid-suburbs.
5. A "perimeter" MARTA light metro line.
6. Trolley/trams for interconnectedness and "last mile."
7. Expanded bus service.
8. Expanded express bus service.
9. Uniform taxi system/coloring.
10. Two multi-modal stations: Grand Five Points and Armour Valley
11. Infrastructure retrofitting: More walkability
12. Expanded bike lane system.
13. More trails.
14. Shuttle bus circulator system for certain key areas.
15. More parks, more conservation of certain land areas.
16. Capping the freeways.
1. Beltline (transit component)
2. Commuter Rail to outer suburbs/exurbs (all 11 lines).
3. MARTA heavy rail or light metro to Emory/Northlake, Cumberland, Windward, and Maynard Jackson Terminal.
4. MARTA heavy rail and/or light metro to mid-suburbs.
5. A "perimeter" MARTA light metro line.
6. Trolley/trams for interconnectedness and "last mile."
7. Expanded bus service.
8. Expanded express bus service.
9. Uniform taxi system/coloring.
10. Two multi-modal stations: Grand Five Points and Armour Valley
11. Infrastructure retrofitting: More walkability
12. Expanded bike lane system.
13. More trails.
14. Shuttle bus circulator system for certain key areas.
15. More parks, more conservation of certain land areas.
16. Capping the freeways.
I know I go on about this, but one of the last points I made above is the willingness for the DFW area as a region to work together. You just don't see the fights you see in Atlanta: City vs. suburb. City vs. its own county. County vs. neighboring county. I am not saying there isn't some of this in TX, but nowhere near to the vitriol that goes back and forth in Atlanta.
I would expand this to say there is less us vs. them in regards to city and state. For starters, there is Houston which is nearly the same size. Then you have San Antonio and Austin, and while not an MSA or even a CSS, the region is closing in on being the same size and scope as the two biggies. Yes, there is good natured bragging on which is the best, but it feels more like the rah rah you have for college football. No feeling of being in competition with each other, but a feeling of what's good for the other is good for the state and that's good for ones own city/region.
I guess there is the "Texas" mystique that the natives promote and newcomers buy into. Folks coming to Atlanta come to Atlanta... they don't see themselves coming to Georgia, not in the same way someone from out of state moving to any of the Texas cities see themselves moving to Texas.
So, Texans are proud of their state and their individual cities. A lot of the new Atlantans are pro-Atlanta and anti the rest of the state. Why? I can't say. It really doesn't make sense. Maybe a holdover of anything southern is seen as backwards and while I still consider Texas part of the south, it has always had that independent thing going on in the national consciousness that Georgia has never had.
Okay, that is rambly.... hey I know I ramble on here... and what I am saying has a lot of intangibles. But this inability to work as a metro region coupled with this metro vs. state mindset is the biggest hindrance to your list above being brought to reality.
I wish Georgians and Atlantans had a mindset that Texans have... what's good for the state is good for the city and vice versa. I would say that is the difference.
I know I go on about this, but one of the last points I made above is the willingness for the DFW area as a region to work together. You just don't see the fights you see in Atlanta: City vs. suburb. City vs. its own county. County vs. neighboring county. I am not saying there isn't some of this in TX, but nowhere near to the vitriol that goes back and forth in Atlanta.
I would expand this to say there is less us vs. them in regards to city and state. For starters, there is Houston which is nearly the same size. Then you have San Antonio and Austin, and while not an MSA or even a CSS, the region is closing in on being the same size and scope as the two biggies. Yes, there is good natured bragging on which is the best, but it feels more like the rah rah you have for college football. No feeling of being in competition with each other, but a feeling of what's good for the other is good for the state and that's good for ones own city/region.
I guess there is the "Texas" mystique that the natives promote and newcomers buy into. Folks coming to Atlanta come to Atlanta... they don't see themselves coming to Georgia, not in the same way someone from out of state moving to any of the Texas cities see themselves moving to Texas.
So, Texans are proud of their state and their individual cities. A lot of the new Atlantans are pro-Atlanta and anti the rest of the state. Why? I can't say. It really doesn't make sense. Maybe a holdover of anything southern is seen as backwards and while I still consider Texas part of the south, it has always had that independent thing going on in the national consciousness that Georgia has never had.
Okay, that is rambly.... hey I know I ramble on here... and what I am saying has a lot of intangibles. But this inability to work as a metro region coupled with this metro vs. state mindset is the biggest hindrance to your list above being brought to reality.
I wish Georgians and Atlantans had a mindset that Texans have... what's good for the state is good for the city and vice versa. I would say that is the difference.
So, Texans are proud of their state and their individual cities. A lot of the new Atlantans are pro-Atlanta and anti the rest of the state. Why? I can't say. It really doesn't make sense. Maybe a holdover of anything southern is seen as backwards and while I still consider Texas part of the south, it has always had that independent thing going on in the national consciousness that Georgia has never had.
I think most newcomers to Atlanta are indifferent to the rest of the state; they couldn't see themselves living anywhere else in Georgia but Atlanta whereas a state like Texas provides several options for big city living. If they are anti, it just might be because they are aware of the antagonistic relationship Georgia has and has had with Atlanta.
I'm excited at the thought of seeing Atlanta CSA in the Top 10 by population, honestly.
I wasn't alive when Chicago was going through its growth spurt. I am alive to see Dallas, Houston, Miami, Atlanta, Washington, Toronto, and the San Francisco Bay Area though and its been incredible and special for me.
People must wonder what I stick around this City-Data forum for, its entirely for population statistics and information. I'm 25 years old, the concept of being able to watch an entire city grow up while I do is a beautiful thing and I am fortunate to have lived in several that I've been able to witness these profound changes.
No feeling more special than the feeling of growing up and doing it while your city is doing it too.
I think most newcomers to Atlanta are indifferent to the rest of the state; they couldn't see themselves living anywhere else in Georgia but Atlanta whereas a state like Texas provides several options for big city living. If they are anti, it just might be because they are aware of the antagonistic relationship Georgia has and has had with Atlanta.
Good points overall though.
Texas is more tied to its agricultural/ranching/oil roots, all which are rural endeavors. There is an appreciation for the rancher epitomized by the cowboy hat and cowboy boot wearing traditions. Even those that are big city dwellers have a connection to rural areas of the state and newcomers seem aware of it and adopt it.
Newcomers to Georgia have a disdain for rural life and the agrarian lifestyle that went along with it. Perhaps a western vs. eastern US mindset.
Texas is more tied to its agricultural/ranching/oil roots, all which are rural endeavors. There is an appreciation for the rancher epitomized by the cowboy hat and cowboy boot wearing traditions. Even those that are big city dwellers have a connection to rural areas of the state and newcomers seem aware of it and adopt it.
There is truth in that, Saintmarks.
Three of my grandparents were the first of their respective clans to live in town and as a result our branch of the family was always looked down on a little. We city folk just weren't as trusted or "down to earth" as our country cousins.
Though my grandparents came to town because they were simply looking for work, it felt like the rest of the family thought we were getting too big for our britches. I believe some of them still feel that way.
I know I go on about this, but one of the last points I made above is the willingness for the DFW area as a region to work together. You just don't see the fights you see in Atlanta: City vs. suburb. City vs. its own county. County vs. neighboring county. I am not saying there isn't some of this in TX, but nowhere near to the vitriol that goes back and forth in Atlanta.
I would expand this to say there is less us vs. them in regards to city and state. For starters, there is Houston which is nearly the same size. Then you have San Antonio and Austin, and while not an MSA or even a CSS, the region is closing in on being the same size and scope as the two biggies. Yes, there is good natured bragging on which is the best, but it feels more like the rah rah you have for college football. No feeling of being in competition with each other, but a feeling of what's good for the other is good for the state and that's good for ones own city/region.
I guess there is the "Texas" mystique that the natives promote and newcomers buy into. Folks coming to Atlanta come to Atlanta... they don't see themselves coming to Georgia, not in the same way someone from out of state moving to any of the Texas cities see themselves moving to Texas.
So, Texans are proud of their state and their individual cities. A lot of the new Atlantans are pro-Atlanta and anti the rest of the state. Why? I can't say. It really doesn't make sense. Maybe a holdover of anything southern is seen as backwards and while I still consider Texas part of the south, it has always had that independent thing going on in the national consciousness that Georgia has never had.
Okay, that is rambly.... hey I know I ramble on here... and what I am saying has a lot of intangibles. But this inability to work as a metro region coupled with this metro vs. state mindset is the biggest hindrance to your list above being brought to reality.
I wish Georgians and Atlantans had a mindset that Texans have... what's good for the state is good for the city and vice versa. I would say that is the difference.
And compared to Houston, Austin and San Antonio, DFW is noted for its infighting between suburbs and the city and Dallas and Ft. Worth. Yet it still works together much better than Atlanta.
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