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Maybe I wasn't clear. I was referring to long distance trucking and power lines in Texas. Since Texas is not as populated as the UK, and since since the Texas' landmass is almost twice as much as the landmass of the UK, travel distances are longer in Texas.
If you look at a map of Texas versus a map of the UK, you will notice that in the UK most people live closer to each other than it is in Texas. Power lines in Texas are much longer than the power lines in the UK, too.
Trucking across Texas takes several hours with truck stops to rest or sleep in the cab overnight. Meanwhile the refrigeration system that keeps perishable products cool must run non-stop. The same for the truck's AC during the hot summer. Can an EV truck's battery, towing a double or triple trailer loaded with groceries and perishable foods across Texas maintain both the driver and the products cool?
I do agree with you that in places that have people close to each other (the US states you have mentioned), as well as the UK, EV is a lot more possible than in places where the people are spread out and away from the cities.
But this problem still remains: where are apartment dwellers going to charge their EV's.
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I understand your point about the UK being smaller and more densely populated with cities far closer to each other compared to Texas. I guess the confusion came in when in the post of yours I quoted, you mentioned Alaska specifically which is in many ways very different from Texas. If the UK is a very different situation from Texas due to size and population density, then it's a larger jump from Texas to Alaska in terms of size and population density.
UK, Texas, Norway+Sweden, Alaska by land area: 93K sq mile,, 261K sq mile, (148K + 173K - 23K*) 298K sq mile, 571K sq mile
UK, Texas, Norway+Sweden, Alaska by population density: 700 ppsqm, 108 ppsqm, 52* ppsqm, 1 ppsqm
If you look at a map for these at scale and with a projection (if on a flat surface) that keeps scale, they're all different in size and density and they do have different qualities--so that's why I mentioned the countries of Norway and Sweden on the Scandinavian peninsula which together are somewhat larger than Texas, but less densely populated and with greater distances among its larger cities including the two largest cities for both respectively. In a comparison to Texas, it would seem like that comparable size while being more sparsely settled while also being in a much colder environment would mean that they are less conducive to EVs than Texas is and yet they have had for years in the recent past and currently far higher EV adoption rates. Scandinavia also has a much longer major axis than Texas does since it's got a long northeast-southwest orientation (about 1,100 miles for the longest axis versus 800 miles for the longest axis for Texas) and it's not like they tell people in Tromsø to buzz off when it comes to getting electricity access.
It should be pretty easily doable for Texas if it is for Norway and Sweden in Scandinavia. That size, that distance among cities, that population density, etc. evidently can work fine for EVs and that's with colder and longer winters. However, I would say that is not so applicable to Alaska which has a far greater size and much lower population density as well as far more inclement winters, so it was confusing to me if you were talking more about Texas or Alaska. They are two very different states. Scandinavia should technically be a much more difficult environment for EVs than Texas is and yet EV adoption rates are very high in Scandinavia so there's not really much of a reasonable argument around EVs technically not being able to cover Texas well. However, it very much remains to be seen whether the technology now or even that in the near future advances enough for that to be the case for Alaska. Does that logic make sense for you? I'm definitely open to having the blind spots in this discussion being pointed out.
As for apartment dwellers, well, they also don't have gas pumps straight to their parking spaces, right? I've lived in several parts of the US and visited many, many more, and I don't think that's the norm anywhere I've been, but I obviously haven't exhaustively been in every place in the US. I think for those places that don't have gas pumps straight to apartment parking, then EVs are pretty similar to how it works with gas vehicles right now which is you have to go to a refueling station. For EVs, that currently takes longer so there is currently a penalty for that though that penalty varies depending on how fast your vehicle is able to recharge. On the potential upside, there are some places where the parking does have charging available including parking at shopping centers, workplaces, and other such where you can charge while you do your thing rather than making a dedicated stop somewhere--this also, in my experience, isn't something I see in regards to gas pumps being in parking lots and parking garages where one parks a vehicle while going to work, doing errands, etc, though again, I can't say with certainty that's the case throughout the US. I do think that EVs are definitely a much more favorable proposition for those who can have access to charging at home though and that's probably something like half of US households.
*Subtracting Svalbard which is sizable in land area though not population, and not on the Scandinavian peninsula nor is there regular ferry service. Svalbard, like Alaska outside of the panhandle, will definitely require quite a bit of technological advancement for EVs to be a reasonable choice which is something that I think we both agree on.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 02-25-2021 at 02:04 PM..
Texas is a very large piece of real-estate, and nothing like where you are from where people live on top of each other. Wind power is also used in Texas.
As for apartment dwellers, well, they also don't have gas pumps straight to their parking spaces, right?
It's going to take some logistical effort, but these "hurdles" are hardly preventative by any stretch of the imagination. Because of the relative ease of installing hookups (as opposed to submerged gas tanks and all sorts of state and federal safety standards to go along with installing pumps), there are numerous possibilities.
At least around here (in Massachusetts, the subject of the thread), most new developments with parking are including at least some charging functionality right off the bat even prior to the announcement of the 2035 date. That'll increase now that this goal has been set. My building has EV stations in the resident garage. Most public garages have incorporated some EV parking as well. There are even EV stations at meters around town. Many surface parking lots around town feature hookups. And this is in 2021 - 14 years out from the "no more new gas cars" deadline and even further from the point at which there are no ICEs on the road in MA. These places will continue to add charging capacity as demand requires.
Essentially, anywhere you park cars now, you can add hookups and you don't need to add them overnight since this is a slow rollout. And in maybe 30 or so years when EVs account for the majority (but still not the only) vehicles on the road, there should be ample charging opportunities for apartment dwellers, even if they can't charge at home. Fast charging should be available at fueling stations, grocery stores, car washes, convenience stores, etc. They can take a similar approach to what we all do now - plan when to fill up before you go home or leave enough charge to get to a charging spot when you leave your home. In the more distant future, I would wager we'll be able to send our self-driving EVs off to some remote lot/garage and summon them when we need them at the touch of a button/with a voice assistant. But realistically/practically speaking for the next 15-30 years, charging shouldn't be that much of a challenge.
What happens to the nuclear waste? Is to disposed of at the French vineyards?
The guru on climate change says we have to go nuclear. Nuclear waste can be taken to rain forests where the radiation accelerates vegetation growth. Happened at Chernobyl.
It's going to take some logistical effort, but these "hurdles" are hardly preventative by any stretch of the imagination. Because of the relative ease of installing hookups (as opposed to submerged gas tanks and all sorts of state and federal safety standards to go along with installing pumps), there are numerous possibilities.
At least around here (in Massachusetts, the subject of the thread), most new developments with parking are including at least some charging functionality right off the bat even prior to the announcement of the 2035 date. That'll increase now that this goal has been set. My building has EV stations in the resident garage. Most public garages have incorporated some EV parking as well. There are even EV stations at meters around town. Many surface parking lots around town feature hookups. And this is in 2021 - 14 years out from the "no more new gas cars" deadline and even further from the point at which there are no ICEs on the road in MA. These places will continue to add charging capacity as demand requires.
Essentially, anywhere you park cars now, you can add hookups and you don't need to add them overnight since this is a slow rollout. And in maybe 30 or so years when EVs account for the majority (but still not the only) vehicles on the road, there should be ample charging opportunities for apartment dwellers, even if they can't charge at home. Fast charging should be available at fueling stations, grocery stores, car washes, convenience stores, etc. They can take a similar approach to what we all do now - plan when to fill up before you go home or leave enough charge to get to a charging spot when you leave your home. In the more distant future, I would wager we'll be able to send our self-driving EVs off to some remote lot/garage and summon them when we need them at the touch of a button/with a voice assistant. But realistically/practically speaking for the next 15-30 years, charging shouldn't be that much of a challenge.
Yea, that does seem to be the case. There's also not nearly the kind of restrictions in installing an EV charging station versus a gas pump--like, who installs a gas pump into a garage whether it's a personal SFH garage, a commercial garage, or an apartment garage? Or how about parking lots right outside of a business or a residence--when was the last time someone saw this save for the kwik-e-mart attached to the gas station?
Massachusetts in respect to EVs, population densities and area is a lot more comparable to the UK (England vs New England!) than it is to Alaska.
Figured I'd update this to be on topic:
MA, UK, Texas, Norway+Sweden, Alaska by land area: 8K sq mile, 93K sq mile,, 261K sq mile, (148K + 173K - 23K*) 298K sq mile, 571K sq mile
MA, UK, Texas, Norway+Sweden, Alaska by population density: 840 ppsqm, 700 ppsqm, 108 ppsqm, 52* ppsqm, 1 ppsqm
Yea, that does seem to be the case. There's also not nearly the kind of restrictions in installing an EV charging station versus a gas pump -- like, who installs a gas pump into a garage whether it's a personal SFH garage, a commercial garage, or an apartment garage?
Supermarkets near me have installed some EV charging points on some bays. They say they will have them in all bays when EVs are more common. The are so easy to install as well, with as you say, few laws compared to volatile liquid fuel storage and pump distribution. There are many EV charging points near me with two on the pavement outside my apartment building. Many are popping up in more urban districts as well.
Some EV chargers need a separate ground rod, teh more advanced do not.
As time goes on more innovations will appear. Many under construction housing estates are having EV chargers on the drives installed as standard. I know electricians who only install EV chargers business is so brisk.
Supermarkets near me have installed some EV charging points on some bays. They say they will have them in all bays when EVs are more common. The are so easy to install as well, with as you say, few laws compared to volatile liquid fuel storage and pump distribution. There are many EV charging points near me with two on the pavement outside my apartment building. Many are popping up in more urban districts as well.
Some EV chargers need a separate ground rod, teh more advanced do not.
As time goes on more innovations will appear. Many under construction housing estates are having EV chargers on the drives installed as standard. I know electricians who only install EV chargers business is so brisk.
A new paper out in the prestigious journal Nature Geoscience finds that the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC), AKA the Gulf Stream, has weakened by about 15% since the 1950s, and on the present trajectory, would be expected to weaken by 40% by the end of this century.
The Gulf Stream:
keeps western Europe much warmer than it would otherwise be at its latitude (comparable to Canada) - significant reduction or collapse would bring arctic temperatures to northern Europe
removes water from the southeast coast of the US - significant reduction or collapse would bring higher ocean levels to e.g. Florida and Georgia
distributes nutrients to the marine ecosystem - significant reduction or collapse would significantly curtail commercial and recreational fishing and impact the food supply
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Clearer picture of Gulf Stream weakening
