Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
EVs actually run on electricity though as EV is short for electric vehicle. It's not a whole new infrastructure like hydrogen gas for fuel cells would be. That's why it's relevant to say that even rural counties in California have electricity today. The electric vehicles actually charge using electricity.
Now you are being patronizing. Clearly if 24 out of 58 counties in California have more PHEVs than BEVs it is because there is not a strong infrastructure away from home, and people are not inclined to take the risk or to take the time to recharge,
Clearly people who live in rural areas probably have an easier time charging at home than people who live in dense urban areas
Now you are being patronizing. Clearly if 24 out of 58 counties in California have more PHEVs than BEVs it is because there is not a strong infrastructure away from home, and people are not inclined to take the risk or to take the time to recharge,
Clearly people who live in rural areas probably have an easier time charging at home than people who live in dense urban areas
You keep on mentioning EV infrastructure and how difficult electrification in rural areas are, so I'm curious as to how you think this impacts rural CA counties in terms of EVs. It would seem like this boils down to either you don't think rural CA counties get grid connections or that EVs use something aside from electricity. I'm not sure which one you think it is, but I assure you that rural CA counties do have electricity and electric vehicles do use electricity to charge. The rest of the lift for charging EVs is the installation of chargers which is a pretty small step after that.
I don't think it's clear that PHEVs over BEVs is really mostly about infrastructure away from home. I think it could also be that long range EVs with large battery packs have been quite a bit more expensive for the utility value of the vehicle for more vehicles for a longer time because this is total registrations rather than new vehicle market share, and for most of the last decade battery dollar per kWh was quite a bit higher. For example, there would have been very hard case to make for the first generation Nissan Leaf outside of a city roundabout and that was the top selling EV for most of the 2010s. While it is then technically true that people can't take the time to recharge a first-gen Leaf in rural counties as it would take forever, the bigger problem is really the limited range in the first place that may require them to recharge at home (where most charging is) or at someone else's home over the course of even a day.
Even with that the numbers of BEVs and PHEVs aren't that generally that staggeringly different from each other unless the total numbers are very small.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 06-20-2021 at 07:18 AM..
You keep on mentioning the difficulty of this infrastructure and how difficult electrification in rural areas are, so I'm curious as to how this impacts rural CA counties.
I said historically. Half a century after Thomas Edison introduced the first electric power plant to Manhattan, the government had to pass a major bill , the Rural Electrification Act of 1936 which took decades longer to electrify rural America. Many people in the rural regions of the US were making their own electricity in the 1930s, most commonly with windmills and storing it in lead acid batteries. At one time there were more than 700 U.S. windmill manufacturers.
I also mentioned the problem of bringing high speed internet to rural areas where laying cable is prohibitively expensive.
Counties in California where BEVs are more than 2% of vehicles are (not surprisingly) all in the San Francisco region.
3.50% Santa Clara
3.11% Marin
2.90% San Mateo
2.63% San Francisco
2.59% Alameda
In rural counties there is not a vast infrastructure of charging stations so that a driver can feel comfortable owning a BEV.
As of 2020 these five counties have the lowest BEV penetration. They do have larger PHEV ownerhsip.
0.00% Modoc
0.03% Lassen
0.05% Colusa
0.08% Imperial
0.12% Sierra
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
I do think PA will continue to have a lower EV adoption rate than both CA and MA for the near future / next few decades.
I agree with you, because it is not a big part of the culture. But PA is behind only Illinois in nuclear power electricity generation. All that nuclear power generated electricity is over and above the state consumption and is sold to other states.
The states that are the biggest on EV adoption are the same ones that can't generate enough electricity to meet current consumption levels.
We just got back from there, and the electric car charging stations are well in place. All the rest areas have a line of Tesla charging stations. Massachusetts is so weird. My kids just spent over $400k on an old broken down farmhouse there and were excited at the deal they got. I couldn’t live there again, but it is a beautiful state,
We were stuck in traffic a few times, and wondered about being a Tesla driver in a situation like that.
I said historically. Half a century after Thomas Edison introduced the first electric power plant to Manhattan, the government had to pass a major bill , the Rural Electrification Act of 1936 which took decades longer to electrify rural America. Many people in the rural regions of the US were making their own electricity in the 1930s, most commonly with windmills and storing it in lead acid batteries. At one time there were more than 700 U.S. windmill manufacturers.
I also mentioned the problem of bringing high speed internet to rural areas where laying cable is prohibitively expensive.
Counties in California where BEVs are more than 2% of vehicles are (not surprisingly) all in the San Francisco region.
3.50% Santa Clara
3.11% Marin
2.90% San Mateo
2.63% San Francisco
2.59% Alameda
In rural counties there is not a vast infrastructure of charging stations so that a driver can feel comfortable owning a BEV.
As of 2020 these five counties have the lowest BEV penetration. They do have larger PHEV ownerhsip.
0.00% Modoc
0.03% Lassen
0.05% Colusa
0.08% Imperial
0.12% Sierra
Sure, but you seem to be trying to apply that to the situation in rural CA now. Do you think rural CA counties generally do not have grid connections for homes and businesses right now or will not in the next 13 1/2 years? I think most, possibly all, gas stations in these places currently have electrical hookup, and so if that baseline works for the current gas vehicles right now, then it stands to reason that at a minimum that'll work for EVs as fast charging starts essentially equaling out to ICE refueling.
That's still a 2 to 3% difference as EVs haven't reached purchase price parity except for certain luxury performance-geared automotive segments. Are you sure that doesn't also reflect socioeconomics and proportion of upper middle class and above as part of those stats? Marin County isn't exactly known for its bustling urbanity. How do Sonoma and Napa fare?
I still think it makes sense to understand that these numbers are for total registrations and meanwhile there haven't been many long range EVs at anything approaching affordable prices for all that long. There's probably a certain threshold that needs to be hit for number of miles per charge to be useful for rural counties as most charging is done at home, but average distances might be longer. That's more of a range and value issue than it's really a charging issue.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 06-20-2021 at 07:49 AM..
We just got back from there, and the electric car charging stations are well in place. All the rest areas have a line of Tesla charging stations. Massachusetts is so weird. My kids just spent over $400k on an old broken down farmhouse there and were excited at the deal they got. I couldn’t live there again, but it is a beautiful state,
We were stuck in traffic a few times, and wondered about being a Tesla driver in a situation like that.
An EV could sit there in a traffic jam with the a/c running all day long with no problem. This is actually where they are better than ICE cars. I have sat in my Volt for an hour with the a/c running and only lost 2 miles of range.
Where EVs tend to fall behind is prolonged high speed driving, such as interstate trips. When you get up to about 75 mph the range declines sharply.
An EV could sit there in a traffic jam with the a/c running all day long with no problem. This is actually where they are better than ICE cars. I have sat in my Volt for an hour with the a/c running and only lost 2 miles of range.
Where EVs tend to fall behind is prolonged high speed driving, such as interstate trips. When you get up to about 75 mph the range declines sharply.
I see a lot of great posts both for and those that are skeptics.
Bottom line which I think we can all agree on is the most difficult obstacle to overcome will be the infrastructure needed to charge those EV’s where people live at apartments and condos.
Next will be those millions of Americans that travel domestically, while the automakers can increase range we will still need to see the hotel and lodging industry to invest in more that two or three charges per property.
Finally last but not least over the next twenty years there will be an increasing up trend in loss of state and federal taxes that are used for roads and infrastructure.
Here in Duval County, Jacksonville, Florida they just added an additional 6 cents by way of SPLOSH to each gallon of gas to fund road construction and repair. This is in addition to a prior 6 cents already in place.
There are many areas where people are living off the grid because it is too expense to bring power lines in.
That's a good point. I imagine that it costs a lot less to build a solar home using lead acid battery bank in really remote areas.
Are these people to be denied mobility?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBtwinz
I see a lot of great posts both for and those that are skeptics.
My skepticism has shifted from the ability of the automobile manufacturing industry to be able to sell affordable BEVs in 13 years, to the ability to build out the infrastructure support to charge them at low cost.
I think Norway is simply better equipped since they have a fairly elaborate public transit system so that people without vehicles or with electric bicycles or mopeds are able to function.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
