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FYI half of all new cars sold in Norway are EVs. Norway is a cold country. It's not a big deal.
I sell fuel for a living and I can tell you a lot of diesel and gasoline is also used for heating (and cooling). When it gets cold we sell a lot more fuel because people idle their vehicles a lot more than than comfortable ambient temperatures. Diesel is also a very poor cold weather fuel and clogged filters due to waxation is a massive problem.
Right, Norway's climate is as cold or colder than that of where most people in the US live. However, you were responding to someone in Fairbanks, Alaska and that is notably colder and with longer durations of cold than Oslo or even Tromsø. The coldest month of Tromsø is January and their average low is about -6C. The average low for Fairbanks in its coldest month is -27C. That is a very substantial difference. I think it's reasonable to expect that residents of Fairbanks will want substantially more improvements to EVs before it's as usable for them as an ICE vehicle would. Granted, Fairbanks isn't the most populous place in the world, but the poster you were responding to is from there and has a good point for his local situation even if it doesn't hold for the vast majority of the rest of the US.
The problems you are referring to don't exist in Northern Canada and Alaska. During the winter, the diesel fuel at the pump is very close to #1 heating fuel. All big rigs at the gold and other mines run on diesel fuel, and so tractor trailers, trains, and ships moving people and things between the continental US and Alaska. There aren't electric aircraft, ships, boats, barges, tractor trailers, backhoes, loaders, dump trucks, cranes, draglines, and so on.
Sound like you don't have to deal with the ills of bio-diesel then. Lucky you! HVO is an awesome fuel but the other crap is a nightmare.
I don't think there will be commercially viable aircraft in my lifetime and I'm 50. It just doesn't make sense carrying all that dead weight up into the air. I imagine the last drops of fossil fuel will power aircraft.
I've been on an electric car ferry so I can assure you they exist and I don't think scaling is a technical issue but more of an economic one. China already has an electric barge in operation and several companies and governments are working on it.
There is a 45 ton electric dump truck (the eDumper). Volvo makes an normal sized electric dump truck. Here's three of them rapid charging at once. https://youtu.be/rWKHFiB4XG8?t=339
There are a couple of different companies working on tractor trailers. Not sure about the other products you mention but it wouldn't surprise me if they either exist or somebody is working on them.
Sound like you don't have to deal with the ills of bio-diesel then. Lucky you! HVO is an awesome fuel but the other crap is a nightmare.
I don't think there will be commercially viable aircraft in my lifetime and I'm 50. It just doesn't make sense carrying all that dead weight up into the air. I imagine the last drops of fossil fuel will power aircraft.
I've been on an electric car ferry so I can assure you they exist and I don't think scaling is a technical issue but more of an economic one. China already has an electric barge in operation and several companies and governments are working on it.
There is a 45 ton electric dump truck (the eDumper). Volvo makes an normal sized electric dump truck. Here's three of them rapid charging at once. https://youtu.be/rWKHFiB4XG8?t=339
There are a couple of different companies working on tractor trailers. Not sure about the other products you mention but it wouldn't surprise me if they either exist or somebody is working on them.
I understand what you are saying. But in a lot of places around the world while fuel stations along the roads are common, charging stations aren't. For example, the Alaska highway through Canada all the way to Alaska, plus the few highways Alaska has only have gas stations. I am talking about thousands of miles. Alaska is just one in a myriad of countries where EV technology is quite difficult to implement.
Now, in relation to EV travel, maybe it's possible in the continental US since States are a short distance from each other, or in places such as Hawaii. Can you imagine the financial loses the Canadian gold mines operating in Alaska would have should they switch from ICE to EV? Or just the truck companies that are transporting foods, construction equipment, fuel, and so on, throughout the US, Alaska, and Canada?
Then we have an enormous military, travel, and shipping industry (s) that run on ICE.
I understand what you are saying. But in a lot of places around the world while fuel stations along the roads are common, charging stations aren't. For example, the Alaska highway through Canada all the way to Alaska, plus the few highways Alaska has only have gas stations. I am talking about thousands of miles. Alaska is just one in a myriad of countries where EV technology is quite difficult to implement.
Now, in relation to EV travel, maybe it's possible in the continental US since States are a short distance from each other, or in places such as Hawaii. Can you imagine the financial loses the Canadian gold mines operating in Alaska would have should they switch from ICE to EV? Or just the truck companies that are transporting foods, construction equipment, fuel, and so on, throughout the US, Alaska, and Canada?
Then we have an enormous military, travel, and shipping industry (s) that run on ICE.
This does not apply for the vast majority of the US's or Canada's population. I think something like a blanket ban on ICE vehicles covering Alaska and the northern stretches of Canada would be pretty absurd in the next several years, but there's also no one seriously proposing that.
The vast majority of the US's and Canada's population live in areas where EVs can fare just fine.
One thing to consider for the rugged north though is what an EV with four independent motors, one on each wheel and each capable of providing a huge amount of torque from the get-go, can potentially do in terms of traction and performance in the snow or off-roading.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 02-17-2021 at 05:46 PM..
I understand what you are saying. But in a lot of places around the world while fuel stations along the roads are common, charging stations aren't. For example, the Alaska highway through Canada all the way to Alaska, plus the few highways Alaska has only have gas stations. I am talking about thousands of miles. Alaska is just one in a myriad of countries where EV technology is quite difficult to implement.
Now, in relation to EV travel, maybe it's possible in the continental US since States are a short distance from each other, or in places such as Hawaii. Can you imagine the financial loses the Canadian gold mines operating in Alaska would have should they switch from ICE to EV? Or just the truck companies that are transporting foods, construction equipment, fuel, and so on, throughout the US, Alaska, and Canada?
Then we have an enormous military, travel, and shipping industry (s) that run on ICE.
Please. You are not being rational. If the population of EVs begin to expand in Alaska all those gas stations will sprout fast chargers. They either have access to enough power or will use gas generators to power the chargers. If they have the fuel for the ICE vehicles going away they will have enough to generate power for the EVs.
Please. You are not being rational. If the population of EVs begin to expand in Alaska all those gas stations will sprout fast chargers. They either have access to enough power or will use gas generators to power the chargers. If they have the fuel for the ICE vehicles going away they will have enough to generate power for the EVs.
I actually think Ray is being rational. There are definitely some edge cases for which ICEs make sense. The Alaska highway is a pretty good example of that, at least for the time being. Heavy trucking over long distances is another case where pure EVs won't take over for a while.
One thing I'd wonder about though as it pertains to Alaska and EVs. Alaska has a lot of villages which don't have road access to the outside world and for which bringing in gasoline and diesel must be a logistical nightmare and which must make fuel really expensive. Aren't EVs a much better solution in those communities?
The problems you are referring to don't exist in Northern Canada and Alaska. During the winter, the diesel fuel at the pump is very close to #1 heating fuel. All big rigs at the gold and other mines run on diesel fuel, and so tractor trailers, trains, and ships moving people and things between the continental US and Alaska. There aren't electric aircraft, ships, boats, barges, tractor trailers, backhoes, loaders, dump trucks, cranes, draglines, and so on.
You are a little off on your info - #1 oil is considered diesel fuel - depending on how cold it gets #1 and #2 are blended in colder areas to make it flow better and keep the paraffin from clogging filters, but that makes the fuel more expensive, quicker to start but lower efficiency and more wear.
Trains and ships do something different - trains use something closer to regular diesel but employ heaters - most trains are electric or diesel electric. Marine fuel oil that is used in most Ships is more like crud that doesn't flow unless heated, it is closer to tar than diesel - they are often using large 2 strokes because of the fuel used.
Sorry but you are incorrect - electric aircraft, ships, boats, tractor trailers, backhoes, loaders, excavators, dump trucks and so on do exist.
Electric aircraft exist - here is an example that is already certified and in production.
Electric ships/boats also exist - most submarines run on electric drive and many bass boats and some sailboats have electric drive motors that are powered by batteries. Barges have no power - they are pulled by tugs that are often diesel electric. Tesla has a couple of Tractor trailers that are all electric and in use to haul batteries between Reno NV and Fremont CA.
Electric heavy equipment already exists also - here is a large dump truck and an excavator. Volvo has said all new smaller loader and backhoe equipment will be electric - some that have been already developed.
I understand what you are saying. But in a lot of places around the world while fuel stations along the roads are common, charging stations aren't. For example, the Alaska highway through Canada all the way to Alaska, plus the few highways Alaska has only have gas stations. I am talking about thousands of miles. Alaska is just one in a myriad of countries where EV technology is quite difficult to implement.
Now, in relation to EV travel, maybe it's possible in the continental US since States are a short distance from each other, or in places such as Hawaii. Can you imagine the financial loses the Canadian gold mines operating in Alaska would have should they switch from ICE to EV? Or just the truck companies that are transporting foods, construction equipment, fuel, and so on, throughout the US, Alaska, and Canada?
Then we have an enormous military, travel, and shipping industry (s) that run on ICE.
First off Alaska is not a "Country" - it is part of the US and you can travel from the continental US to Alaska in an electric vehicle - chargers do exist along that route but it would be very slow. Electric vehicles travel across the rest of the US with no problem. You also can't charge (or for that matter, fill with gas) your way to HI - proves nothing. Tesla's and other EVs are in use in Alaska and have been for years, and Tesla (and other) chargers exist there already.
You are a little off on your info - #1 oil is considered diesel fuel - depending on how cold it gets #1 and #2 are blended in colder areas to make it flow better and keep the paraffin from clogging filters, but that makes the fuel more expensive, quicker to start but lower efficiency and more wear.
Trains and ships do something different - trains use something closer to regular diesel but employ heaters - most trains are electric or diesel electric. Marine fuel oil that is used in most Ships is more like crud that doesn't flow unless heated, it is closer to tar than diesel - they are often using large 2 strokes because of the fuel used.
Sorry but you are incorrect - electric aircraft, ships, boats, tractor trailers, backhoes, loaders, excavators, dump trucks and so on do exist.
Electric aircraft exist - here is an example that is already certified and in production.
Electric ships/boats also exist - most submarines run on electric drive and many bass boats and some sailboats have electric drive motors that are powered by batteries. Barges have no power - they are pulled by tugs that are often diesel electric. Tesla has a couple of Tractor trailers that are all electric and in use to haul batteries between Reno NV and Fremont CA.
Electric heavy equipment already exists also - here is a large dump truck and an excavator. Volvo has said all new smaller loader and backhoe equipment will be electric - some that have been already developed.
Do we have electric trains running on battery power?
Do we have commercial or military aircraft that are battery-powered?
How about cruise ships, tug boats, ice breakers, etc., that run on battery power?
So the barges used on Lake Champlain don't have ICE motors?
How about the barges moving people, foods, trucks, cars, and so on from Haines to Alaska?
Search for and read the definition go barge.
Yes, I understand what #1 diesel fuel is. You can also use this fuel for boilers and furnaces that have tanks over the ground. If the tank is underground, then #2 is fine. Since it gets so cold in the interior of Alaska, #1 is required at the pump. During the summer the gas stations have #2 diesel fuel. That's the way it is in Fairbanks, Alaska.
First off Alaska is not a "Country" - it is part of the US and you can travel from the continental US to Alaska in an electric vehicle - chargers do exist along that route but it would be very slow. Electric vehicles travel across the rest of the US with no problem. You also can't charge (or for that matter, fill with gas) your way to HI - proves nothing. Tesla's and other EVs are in use in Alaska and have been for years, and Tesla (and other) chargers exist there already.
My goodness! Where did I say that Alaska is a country? A few years ago, there was a guy who totaled his Tesla car, but believe me when I tell you that we don't have charging stations on the Alaska Highway, nor the roads in Alaska.
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