Is Baltimore an Northeastern city? (Clinton: license plates, public transportation, business)

[gwillyfromphilly]

Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool

Funny, this dude put me on ignore so he couldn't see how I schooled him about the fact that three undoubtedly Southern cities have more Italians than Baltimore. Demographically, it's more in line with the Midwest considering the amount of Germans.

That doesn't mean sh*t. Do those three Southern cites have Italian ethnic neighborhoods. I willing to guess that most of the Italian Americans living in those cities are transplants(mostly from the North). Doubt most of them have deep roots in the places unlike Baltimore that has had a long history of Italian American immigration. Philly has a larger Black population than any city in the South yet does that make Philly a southern city? No, of course not because you have to put things in its proper perspective. lol at all the people trying to downplay Baltimore's Italian American history.

[Ball freak]

Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool

Funny, this dude put me on ignore so he couldn't see how I schooled him about the fact that three undoubtedly Southern cities have more Italians than Baltimore. Demographically, it's more in line with the Midwest considering the amount of Germans.



Latitude wise, Philadelphia and Spain are similar. Guess Spain must be in the Northeast!



And it includes DC.

Saw both your posts. I meant Italian Americans not Italians you fool. Italian Americans are 19.98 percent of Baltimore's population slightly below Chicago and higher than any Southern city maybe except for Miami. Go ahead and believe you've won you haven't. Philly and Baltimore share the same dialect. Philly is obviously not Southern so how is it Baltimore can be Southern. That map was created after most of those Upenn scholars classified it...much of that is from the 1950s. Those maps are studies from the 80s and 90s and clearly show Baltimore and Philly to be distinct from Southern speech patterns. I'll let others do the heavy lifting I'm sick of arguing with a deadbeat.

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly

That doesn't mean sh*t. Do those three Southern cites have Italian ethnic neighborhoods. I willing to guess that most of the Italian Americans living in those cities are transplants(mostly from the North). Doubt most of them have deep roots in the places unlike Baltimore that has had a long history of Italian American immigration. Philly has a larger Black population than any city in the South yet does that make Philly a southern city? No, of course not because you have to things in it's proper perceptive. lol at all the people trying to downplay Baltimore's Italian American history.

First off, I'm not downplaying anything. I know of Baltimore's long history with Italians. But remember when Baltimore was an unquestionably Southern city, that's when it got most of its Italian population. This is just like the row house argument. Baltimore had row houses and Italians even when it was undoubtedly Southern and people had thick Southern accents. Even Nancy Pelosi is of that community of Italians who have Southern accents. See BajanYankee's post about the Jews considering Baltimore the South? Even undoubtedly Northeastern ethnic groups with long ties in Baltimore *knew* they were living in the South. Let's also NOT forget the Italians whose history is rooted in New Orleans. But nobody is calling that city Northeastern.

In sharp contrast to the Northeast, most of the Southern states (exceptions being the Atlantic coast of Florida, Tampa, New Orleans, Baltimore, and a fast-growing community in Atlanta) have very few Italian-American residents.

Secondly, Philly's Black population is 41.6% of the population. Mobile, Alabama's Black population is at 50.3%. Not really sure where you got that figure of Philly having the largest Black population of ANY city in the South. Numbers wise, maybe, as Philly is a larger city, but then NYC would probably have the largest Black population of ANY city because of sheer numbers. But that's not what we're talking here. Of course, if you want to use sheer numbers, Baltimore's Italian population certainly pales in comparison to most Northeast metro areas.

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by Ball freak

Saw both your posts. I meant Italian Americans not Italians you fool. Italian Americans are 19.98 percent of Baltimore's population slightly below Chicago and higher than any Southern city maybe except for Miami. Go ahead and believe you've won you haven't. Philly and Baltimore share the same dialect. Philly is obviously not Southern so how is it Baltimore can be Southern. That map was created after most of those Upenn scholars classified it...much of that is from the 1950s. Those maps are studies from the 80s and 90s and clearly show Baltimore and Philly to be distinct from Southern speech patterns. I'll let others do the heavy lifting I'm sick of arguing with a deadbeat.

Do you even use the website you're currently on?

Italian percentage in Baltimore City: 2.8%

Baltimore County: 7%

7+2.8 =/= 19.98

Source: //www.city-data.com

By the way, love how this discussion messes with your mind so much, you can't even keep me on ignore for more than 1 day. But since I'm back on your radar, how is it that a linguistic map that puts two Southern cities with Philly is a Northeast linguistic map? That's kind of interesting. That same linguistic map doesn't put Philly with ANY Northeast city, yet it puts it with TWO Southern cities.

See, you are guilty of this circular reasoning. Your mode of argument is as follows:

Baltimore and DC are Northeastern
Philly is in the same linguistic map as Baltimore and DC
Therefore, Baltimore and DC are Northeastern

Not really sure how that works.

[gwillyfromphilly]

Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool

First off, I'm not downplaying anything. I know of Baltimore's long history with Italians. But remember when Baltimore was an unquestionably Southern city, that's when it got most of its Italian population. This is just like the row house argument. Baltimore had row houses and Italians even when it was undoubtedly Southern and people had thick Southern accents. Even Nancy Pelosi is of that community of Italians who have Southern accents. See BajanYankee's post about the Jews considering Baltimore the South? Even undoubtedly Northeastern ethnic groups with long ties in Baltimore *knew* they were living in the South. Let's also NOT forget the Italians whose history is rooted in New Orleans. But nobody is calling that city Northeastern.

The Jews aren't the only Americans in this country that have an opinion on Baltimore. Also New Orleans is more of an anomaly in the South, given its rich and unique history in the Deep South. BajanYankee knows that even though he may not admit it.

Secondly, Philly's Black population is 41.6% of the population. Mobile, Alabama's Black population is at 50.3%. Not really sure where you got that figure of Philly having the largest Black population of ANY city in the South. Numbers wise, maybe, as Philly is a larger city, but then NYC would probably have the largest Black population of ANY city because of sheer numbers. But that's not what we're talking here. Of course, if you want to use sheer numbers, Baltimore's Italian population certainly pales in comparison to most Northeast metro areas.[/b]

I'm talking about raw population numbers. Philly is rank 3rd behind NYC and Chicago. Of course Baltimore's Italian population isn't going to be as high as the other northeastern cities because their metro areas are much larger than Baltimore.

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly

The Jews aren't the only Americans in this country that have an opinion on Baltimore. Also New Orleans is more of an anomaly in the South, given its rich and unique history in the Deep South. BajanYankee knows that even though he may not admit it.

Right, I know NOLA is an anomaly of the South, which is why I refer to it as a COMPARISON to Baltimore. Two cities that are anomalies of the South. Both have higher concentrations of White ethnics more common to other regions (French to the Northeast and Germans to the Midwest), and large amounts of Catholics.

I'm talking about raw population numbers. Philly is rank 3rd behind NYC and Chicago. Of course Baltimore's Italian population isn't going to be as high as the other northeastern cities because their metro areas are much larger than Baltimore.

Yes, but that's why raw numbers are never a good estimate. Percentages give one a better idea. It's like if a school room had 20 Black kids and 80 White kids, it wouldn't be a very Black room. But if the room had 20 black kids, and 8 White kids, then it's a different story.

[gwillyfromphilly]

Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool

Right, I know NOLA is an anomaly of the South, which is why I refer to it as a COMPARISON to Baltimore. Two cities that are anomalies of the South. Both have higher concentrations of White ethnics more common to other regions (French to the Northeast and Germans to the Midwest), and large amounts of Catholics.

Baltimore isn't an anomaly due to it's location so to try and compare it to New Orleans as if they can be comparable is nonsense. Sorry but your going to have to come up with something better than the Mason-Dixon line as your defense.

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly

Baltimore isn't an anomaly due to it's location so to try and compare it to New Orleans as if they can be comparable is nonsense. Sorry but your going to have to come up with something better than the Mason-Dixon line as your defense.

Sure, and that's what you call history. Have you been here for that? Baltimore's history is that of a Southern town. If Baltimore's geography was the undoubtedly Northeastern indicator, then you wouldn't see such SHARP drops in ethnic group dispersion south of the Mason Dixon. Baltimore is more like Richmond ethnically than it is like Philadelphia. It's not just ethnically, but again, why is there such a sharp distinction between Baltimore and Philly in terms of Italian population than there is between Baltimore and Richmond? People always compare Baltimore to the Deep South in order to show how "different" it is, yet when you consider Richmond, it's not very different.

[muppethammer26]

Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool

Sure, and that's what you call history. Have you been here for that? Baltimore's history is that of a Southern town. If Baltimore's geography was the undoubtedly Northeastern indicator, then you wouldn't see such SHARP drops in ethnic group dispersion south of the Mason Dixon. Baltimore is more like Richmond ethnically than it is like Philadelphia. It's not just ethnically, but again, why is there such a sharp distinction between Baltimore and Philly in terms of Italian population than there is between Baltimore and Richmond? People always compare Baltimore to the Deep South in order to show how "different" it is, yet when you consider Richmond, it's not very different.

Why you keep talking about how ethnic groups make a city or state northeastern? You should just place Baltimore and Maryland in the Northeast, wherever it has as much ethnic people as the other northeastern cities and states or not. Just follow the geography.

[gwillyfromphilly]

Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool

Sure, and that's what you call history. Have you been here for that? Baltimore's history is that of a Southern town. If Baltimore's geography was the undoubtedly Northeastern indicator, then you wouldn't see such SHARP drops in ethnic group dispersion south of the Mason Dixon. Baltimore is more like Richmond ethnically than it is like Philadelphia. It's not just ethnically, but again, why is there such a sharp distinction between Baltimore and Philly in terms of Italian population than there is between Baltimore and Richmond? People always compare Baltimore to the Deep South in order to show how "different" it is, yet when you consider Richmond, it's not very different.

Richmond infrastructure has more in common with Northern cities than it does with cities in the deep south. Other than that Richmond is quintessentially a southern city. Baltimore on the other hand shares lot of similarities with Northern cities than it does with southern cities. Italians aren't the only ethnicity that exist in the Northeast.