Fissure 8 lava flow (Kilauea: gated, subdivision, live)

[Dreaming of Hawaii]

Originally Posted by skygazer1

Well, then you tricked me. the 3x southernmost is actually South Pt/Kamaoa/Discovery Harbors

Grassy Knoll knows of what he speaks. He has lived there for many years. His location is “southernmost tip”, which is South Point (officially Ka Lae), the “southernmost island” is Hawaii, and the “southernmost State” is Hawaii.

Discovery Harbour may be the “southernmost subdivision”, but he doesn’t list that as his location.

BTW, parts of Ocean View are in the southwest rift zone of Mauna Loa. Last flows through the subdivision were in 1907. Hope you have your emergency evacuation kit available, GK!

[JoDan]

Originally Posted by skygazer1

It's truly heartbreaking to see people lose all there stuff, but OTOH if you buy or build a home on an active volcano, what can you expect? Maybe playing BJ and counting cards in reverse is better odds

I guess anywhere you live can have something working against you...odds may be better in some places.

[Grassyknoll]

Originally Posted by Dreaming of Hawaii

Grassy Knoll knows of what he speaks. He has lived there for many years. His location is “southernmost tip”, which is South Point (officially Ka Lae), the “southernmost island” is Hawaii, and the “southernmost State” is Hawaii.

Discovery Harbour may be the “southernmost subdivision”, but he doesn’t list that as his location.

BTW, parts of Ocean View are in the southwest rift zone of Mauna Loa. Last flows through the subdivision were in 1907. Hope you have your emergency evacuation kit available, GK!

Yep, got a couple cases of beer and toilet paper staged in the garage.

[Open-D]

Originally Posted by JoDan

I guess anywhere you live can have something working against you...odds may be better in some places.

The comparison between other areas that have hazards, such as tornado alley, the gulf coast, California (earthquake), and Puna, are completely flawed and of no value whatsoever.



The mainland areas people refer to are large, well-populated areas often covering multiple states, have significant resources and make substantial, ongoing contributions to the economy and, often, national security. In short, they are areas that are just too "valuable" and large to abandon.


The threats to these area are also broad and distributed, again, covering whole or multiple states


Puna, OTOH, is a much smaller, tiny, in fact, area, that lacks substantive resources (except some useable farmland). Furthermore, the threat to this area is also relatively small and highly focused, aka the flanks of a highly active volcano. Except for the agricultural contribution, there is little else to it besides being a bedroom community, mostly for people of reduced or fixed means, as well as other activities that are just plain damaging to society such as meth labs. We're not talking about the wheat belt, corn belt, steel belt, major area of commerce and/or industry, but a bedroom community built on the flanks of a volcano. Further, it is a bedroom community that doesn't serve any greater cause such as a manufacturing plant, defense contractor etc.,

Let that sink in, a bedroom community built on the flanks of one of the worlds most-active volcanos.

A bedroom community that could exist ANYWHERE besides the flanks of an active volcano. It doesn't HAVE to be there because there is a massive factory complex, Army base, mining and smelting operation, oilfield, metropolitan area etc., areas that it serves. Moreover, the threat that exists isn't all that geographically large (such as the gulf or Florida coast, tornado alley.

Ergo, removing the community from the threat is not a significantly-difficult issue because both, compared to other situations, are tiny.

Insuring that situations such as a bedroom community NOT be built on the flanks of a highly-active volcano is a legitimate function of government. Allowing this situation to develop as it has was not only a failure of government, but an epic one. A failure that just keeps on giving if left unamended.


Ergo, because of these factors, it is my opinion as I have previously offered, that official and prolonged efforts be undertaken to revert this area to agricultural use, tourism use, and perhaps some other lightly-populated industries, but NOT as a bedroom community.


If one mentally extracts oneself from the details of this particular situation, and asks themselves this simple question "should government allow a bedroom community be built on the flanks of one of the world's most-active volcanos?", I think it would be a rare instance where somebody answered "yes".

[skygazer1]

Originally Posted by Open-D

Insuring that situations such as a bedroom community NOT be built on the flanks of a highly-active volcano is a legitimate function of government. Allowing this situation to develop as it has was not only a failure of government, but an epic one. A failure that just keeps on giving if left unamended.

If one mentally extracts oneself from the details of this particular situation, and asks themselves this simple question "should government allow a bedroom community be built on the flanks of one of the world's most-active volcanos?", I think it would be a rare instance where somebody answered "yes".

Government should NOT be "telling" people what to do, rather people need to TELL the gov't what to do! Isn't that the whole idea of creating this in 1790?

My point was that people need to take responsibility and educate themselves - understanding that a Lava Zone 1 is an active volcano that can go up at any time. Build your home and put all your "eggs in one basket" in such a place, is it sensible?

[Open-D]

Originally Posted by skygazer1

Government should NOT be "telling" people what to do, rather people need to TELL the gov't what to do! Isn't that the whole idea of creating this in 1790?

My point was that people need to take responsibility and educate themselves - understanding that a Lava Zone 1 is an active volcano that can go up at any time. Build your home and put all your "eggs in one basket" in such a place, is it sensible?

Well, you are missing half of the picture. When the people "tell" the government what to do, those actions are carried out in the form of laws and/or regulations, including zoning regulations. It is a large part of what makes our society CIVILIZED. You DO want to live in a civilized society, don't you?


I realize some people want to opt out of "civilization" when/where it suits them, but the social compact we all participate in, makes that pretty much a no-no. Zoning IS a legitimate functions of government, and if there was ever a case for rational government intervention, this mess is IT - especially when it was a failure, no, check that, a MASSIVE failure of government than enabled this MESS.


You're living, well at least thinking, in a long-bygone era, when anyone could do anything they wanted, including actions against others, without regard.

[skygazer1]

Originally Posted by Open-D

Well, you are missing half of the picture. When the people "tell" the government what to do, those actions are carried out in the form of laws and/or regulations, including zoning regulations. It is a large part of what makes our society CIVILIZED. You DO want to live in a civilized society, don't you?


I realize some people want to opt out of "civilization" when/where it suits them, but the social compact we all participate in, makes that pretty much a no-no. Zoning IS a legitimate functions of government, and if there was every a case for rational government intervention, this mess is IT - especially when it was a failure, no, check that, a MASSIVE failure of government than enabled this MESS.

You don't need 100's of thousands of ridiculous laws to have a civilized society! If people act reasonably and friendly towards others, most problems would disappear, only need a handful of basic laws.

Zoning is a very political thing. One person's good zone is another's nightmare.

Not building your life's dream on an exploding volcano is common sense, affects only yourself, and is not the business of the gov't or anyone else to force you, only your own rationale.

[Dreaming of Hawaii]

Originally Posted by Grassyknoll

Yep, got a couple cases of beer and toilet paper staged in the garage.

At least you have your priorities right

[Open-D]

Originally Posted by skygazer1

You don't need 100's of thousands of ridiculous laws to have a civilized society! If people act reasonably and friendly towards others, most problems would disappear, only need a handful of basic laws.

Zoning is a very political thing. One person's good zone is another's nightmare.

Not building your life's dream on an exploding volcano is common sense, affects only yourself, and is not the business of the gov't or anyone else to force you, only your own rationale.

Wishful and wholly-unrealistic thinking.


Yes, zoning can become a very political thing, and THAT fact, is a big part of how this MESS came about in the first place.


In an uncivilized world, perhaps, but in a civilized world, other people have to put lives and property at risk, as well as spend $$$ to bail you out of your poor decision making.

Well, you are on the wrong side of that notion. Zoning, permitting and building codes have existed for a long time, and, by and large, are supported by almost everyone. You may disagree with a particular issue that affects you and your idiotic idea (like building a neighborhood on the side of one of the world's most active volcanos), but by and large, they benefit all, and do so greatly.

[skygazer1]

Originally Posted by Open-D

Wishful and wholly-unrealistic thinking.

In an uncivilized world, perhaps, but in a civilized world, other people have to put lives and property at risk, as well as spend $$$ to bail you out of your poor decision making.

Well, you are on the wrong side of that notion. Zoning, permitting and building codes have existed for a long time, and, by and large, are supported by almost everyone. You may disagree with a particular issue that affects you and your idiotic idea (like building a neighborhood on the side of one of the world's most active volcanos), but by and large, they benefit all, and do so greatly.

Well the law thing as a solution to society's problems is a total failure. We have 100k or more of laws on the books, but just as much crime as when we had just ten commandments! Those gazillions of stupid laws are just a source of endless headaches and confusion, get in the way of people's freedoms and normal daily life.

Have legislatures actually took a look and got rid of stupid old laws? Not to any significant extent, they just add new laws all the time!

So, wishful or not, the solution is to get people to act nice and work together, not manufacture more laws.