"California Bullet Train Project Advances Amid Cries of Boondoggle" (Los Angeles: taxi, live)

[NewToCA]

Let's look at the number of current round trip flights between the Bay Area and metro LA, just on Southwest Airlines alone:

- 11 daily round trip flights between SF and LAX
- 6 daily round trip flights between SF and Burbank
- 7 daily round trip flights between SF and Ontario
- 6 daily round trip flights between SF and Orange County
- 14 daily round trip flights between Oakland and LAX
- 13 daily round trip flights between Oakland and Burbank
- 8 daily round trip flights between Oakland and Ontario
- 7 daily round trip flights between Oakland and Orange County
- 10 daily round trip flights between San Jose and LA
- 8 daily round trip flights between San Jose and Burbank
- 5 daily round trip flights between San Jose and Ontario
- 7 daily round trip flights between San Jose and Orange County

And they aren't the only airline flying between the two areas.

For multiple folks going between the two areas, car travel is quite a bit cheaper. We went down to LA from Sacramento for Thanksgiving weekend (3 folks), and the combined cost for a rental vehicle and fuel was about $280. It would have cost over $800 had we flown. Even a subsidized high speed rail system should cost over $600.

Basically, the "demand" is already being met.

[Chimérique]

If California really does add another 10-20 million people in the next 20-40 years and a train trip costs 35% less than a plane ride; I'd take the train to LA. If the airline market could co-exist with the train market I'd be fine with it.

If I-5 is completely unbearable because of big rigs, and we never increase its size by adding separate big rig lanes, then it would be nice to have a less expensive alternative to planes.

Something needs to be done to deal with the anticipated population growth.

Basically, we need all of the above: Bigger wider I-5 and something to foster TODs (transit oriented development).

Sacramento will probably never get it; so this guarantees numerous flights to Southern Cal.

[Chimérique]

I'm torn on the issue.

Does it really work in France and Germany, and why?

In the last 2yrs, I've taken cross country trips similar to a SF to LA run:

Berlin to Munich (norther germany to southern germany)
Nice, France to Brussels, Belgium(the whole length of France)
Rome to Milan (half of Italy)
London to Paris (215 miles)
Paris to Amsterdam (450 miles)

If you want an express train during peak hours it wasn't cheap.

But, It's great to go from city center to city center, and if you are in the know regarding discounts and a frequent traveler it can be cheap.

It seems lately when europeans travel longer lengths they opt for cheap airlines as well. It seems the two industries can co-exist just fine.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by Chimérique

If California really does add another 10-20 million people in the next 20-40 years and a train trip costs 35% less than a plane ride; I'd take the train to LA.

In all likelihood Sacramento wont even have service by then.

According to the current plan set forth by the CA High Speed Rail Authority(which is the real culprit in this entire fiasco), phase 1 of their plan is their only concern right now and that connects SF and LA, and no funding has been secured made for future extensions, meaning San Diego and Sacramento have no real guarantees at this point.

And the soonest they can even begin to plan and seek funding for any other extensions including Sacramento or San Diego is 2032 when they think they'll be done with phase 1.

So realistically, 2034-2036 is when construction of an extension to Sacramento or San Diego might begin, if at all.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by k374

this train project may be the stupidest decision ever... how are they going to compete? who will ride this train?

I can currently fly LAX-SFO for about $150-200 round trip ($75-100 one way), 45 minutes. Assume a 30 min. extra overhead for security at the airport that's still half the time of the train. Getting to LAX could be quicker than getting to the train station as from what I gather the starting point for this is going to be in the boon docks (Victorville or something)...insane! who is going to ride this thing?

And what will the tickets be? $400 round trip? LMAO!

Common sense should dictate that this is a financially unviable project from every angle imaginable.

Actually, I don't think the trip is that unviable in theory. It's the inevitable cost boondoggle that makes it so.

And I think you're being a little generous with those flight times from SFO to LAX. You have to also consider: Driving time to the airport. Being there an hour early, flight delays, etc. I'd much rather take the train if I had a choice....but I refuse to pay for corrupt boondoggle projects if I have a say in it, and that's all we ever seem to get.

[tickyul]

This thing is a mess any way you slice it.

Either they are going to have to charge an arm and a leg just to service the debt issues. AND.....they will have to charge a ton to cover daily operating expenses.

Or they could just run it like much of California runs things........build up debt on top of debt......that is probably what will happen.

[vdy1985]

Just got some tickets from Southwest for 59$ from Sacramento to Ontario and 49$ from Ontario back up to San Jose. Fast and affordable.

[mollymonk]

The Bullet Train project was voted on before anybody realized the economy was in such a mess.

We have more important things for all this money... Most roads and freeways in California are in such bad condition they look like roads in third world countries.

[Dean Trails]

Originally Posted by mollymonk

The Bullet Train project was voted on before anybody realized the economy was in such a mess.

We have more important things for all this money... Most roads and freeways in California are in such bad condition they look like roads in third world countries.

*clears throat* Jerry Brown's first reign as the gov. was highlightened, among other notable missteps , by diverting funds from infrastructure in a hopeless effort to get folks into public transit. That was the begining of the deterioration of Cal Trans.
This time around, and due to California's economic state, i rather doubt roads and freeways will be upgraded. Tis too easy to do bonds for fanciful bullet trains or even space elevators.

[Gemdiver]

Originally Posted by k374

Common sense should dictate that this is a financially unviable project from every angle imaginable.

Californians don't have common sense!