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It's supposed to cost $52/yr to somehow have the use of 5 reusable bags? That sounds bogus.
I think the numbers are based on people not actually reusing the bags. They also appear to be basing it on people buying 10 bags each week. Even when using regular plastic before we converted to reusable canvas, we were really accumulating only about 20/month.
I did store audits in the past. There are also many other data that shows this. Anyone who had worked in the grocery store would agree. Even if not 90% its at least 80% who vote for plastic at the checkout counter. This applies even in the most liberal areas of the state before SB270 came into effect.
People also have been taking much more bags from the aisles after this went into effect as its no fun to have some grocery spill into a paper bag, canvas bag or into the car's interior. Yes I remember when meat and kimchi spilled but fortunately it was tied into a plastic bag before the store ran out so it did not spill into the car otherwise car would smell terrible and the smell would be very difficult to remove.
The Economic Effect of Plastic Bag Bans | NCPA
This articles shows about the shift in traffic and employment rates in jurisdictions that passed the ban vs the jurstications which did not pass it. In LA county most residents living under the county's ban back in 2012 live in a stones throw from the county's 88 incorporated cities which are not affected. They live equally close to stores non affect as affected and there was a notable difference in traffic shortly following the ban coming into effect. I am surprised though the industry did not do a ballot initiative to overturn it back then.
I read somewhere that Lincoln, CA found a loophole so some stores still offer normal plastic bags for free.
Technically there are many loopholes that make the law moot so the only reason for the law is to back grocery companies Buy your own bag scam when customers are unhappy. Also the state law is only there to take away local control from cities that chose not to enforce a ban for its residents it does not affect local laws passed prior to 2014 even if that ban does not require a fee on paper or reusables.
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Originally Posted by Podo944
Okay so I used to use the plastic bags to line my small trash can under the sink, so now I just buy them? Sooooo... I'm still using plastic bags then right? Is there an alternative? Are people just throwing their garbage in the bin without a liner?
I also used to use them to scoop the unflushable cat litter into them... um so I'm going to just buy plastic bags again? I'm a little confused... I mean they will still be selling the plastic bags in stores right? Sooo... I'm going to buy plastic bags for the the things I used to use the plastic bags I used to get for free from the store?
I get the using reusable bags for shopping...
OBTW, what about paper bags? Are they charging for those? (no I haven't been to a regular store yet where I would get the occasional paper bag)
Ideas for my first world problem? So just buy the plastic?
Thanks!
Very true, people who used to reuse grocery bags to wrap their garbage, this includes the hundreds of other types of plastic wraps securely now loathe to wrap their garbage. Bin liners, glade bags, and paper bags don't stay tied well and the garbage often blows out of trucks during collection and consequently we are getting much more plastic garbage on the side of roads, freeway ramps/shoulders, and creeks. I been noticing how this was happening in the Bay Area when more and more cities passed this ban. I came to Socal and surprisingly find these same places almost litter free until November that is when SB270 came into effect and the freeways, ramps, and streets are rapidly being covered by spilled garbage just like in the Bay Area.
Last edited by citizensadvocate; 02-09-2017 at 10:59 PM..
Even if not 90% its at least 80% who vote for plastic at the checkout counter. This applies even in the most liberal areas of the state before SB270 came into effect.
I don't know who these 80 and 90% might be, since the plastic bag ban passed.
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People also have been taking much more bags from the aisles after this went into effect as its no fun to have some grocery spill into a paper bag, canvas bag or into the car's interior.
This is a website run by a company that "develops and promotes private, free-market alternatives to government regulation and control, solving problems by relying on the strength of the competitive, entrepreneurial private sector." Of course they're going to be against a plastic bag ban; the plastic bag companies lose profits. These people don't care about the environment.
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people who used to reuse grocery bags to wrap their garbage, this includes the hundreds of other types of plastic wraps securely now loathe to wrap their garbage.
Is this your opinion or an actual fact?
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I came to Socal and surprisingly find these same places almost litter free until November that is when SB270 came into effect and the freeways, ramps, and streets are rapidly being covered by spilled garbage just like in the Bay Area.
I'm sorry; this is absurd. If this were a big problem, there would be numerous complaints that would have been addressed. FWIW, I've NEVER had anything leak into my recyclable bags, and I've used them for years. The meat, chicken or fish is already sealed, or if bought from the meat counter, wrapped in double strength paper specifically meant for wrapping these items. And produce doesn't leak.
I don't know who these 80 and 90% might be, since the plastic bag ban passed.
Where is this data?
This is a website run by a company that "develops and promotes private, free-market alternatives to government regulation and control, solving problems by relying on the strength of the competitive, entrepreneurial private sector." Of course they're going to be against a plastic bag ban; the plastic bag companies lose profits. These people don't care about the environment.
Is this your opinion or an actual fact?
I'm sorry; this is absurd. If this were a big problem, there would be numerous complaints that would have been addressed. FWIW, I've NEVER had anything leak into my recyclable bags, and I've used them for years. The meat, chicken or fish is already sealed, or if bought from the meat counter, wrapped in double strength paper specifically meant for wrapping these items. And produce doesn't leak.
You are claiming these people do not care about the environment. A typical response to evidence someone does not like. Where is your evidence and definitely not something based on ideology/political opinion?
Did you even bother to read it?
This is at the end of the article.
"We are once again in need of behavior change at the supermarket," Brown wrote on her website. "We now know that both paper and plastic disposable bags harm the environment. The manufacturing process for paper bags is energy-intensive and increases water and air pollution. Plastic bags litter our environment, waste our diminishing oil supply, and harm marine life. The average household uses 1000 disposable bags per year. Clearly, it is time to make a change."
I've posted it on numerous other "plastic bag ban" threads on this forum and you've already read that data, and argued with that. I realize that you're against the plastic bag ban.
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Did you even bother to read it?
Yes, and it's about competition and increasing profits for plastic bag companies. (Interesting to read the marketing spin about paper bags ruining the environment as well.)
I've posted it on numerous other "plastic bag ban" threads on this forum and you've already read that data, and argued with that. I realize that you're against the plastic bag ban.
Yes, and it's about competition and increasing profits for plastic bag companies. (Interesting to read the marketing spin about paper bags ruining the environment as well.)
I don't know who these 80 and 90% might be, since the plastic bag ban passed.
Where is this data?
Is this your opinion or an actual fact?
In addition to the random hourly store audits our groups did in cities both with or without a carryout bag ordinance. Many many resources including those that back single use bag bans i.e as successes as well as EIRs show at 3/4 of the shoppers would vote for plastic bags when given the choice on their pie charts. The ones done by cities of San Diego and San jose clearly shows it. I won't directly quote them this time as I know people like CA4Now will pick some thing on it to argue on it. Though obviously all those data shows shoppers overwhelmingly vote for plastic bags when they are made available.
I witnessed during the last two months shoppers at Markets that decided to allow their plastic bag supply to be depleted before implementing SB270 such as Fraizer Farms and Northgate Gonzalos were still mostly voting for plastic bags until the supplies ran out.
I do take pictures of garbage trucks and notice that more and more garbage going inside are now unbagged and on windy days it blows up. I have dashcam recordings of this and Google street view images from years before and after the ordinances went into effect. SFDWP also shows alternative street litter increased.
And even in the days when these stores are depleted of traditional plastic bags and offered thick plastic bags for the same price as paper nearly 60% customers still choose them over paper or own bags. For the purposes of this discussion I do exclude situations where the customer only bought one to three items.
QUOTE=CA4Now;47145009]
I'm sorry; this is absurd. If this were a big problem, there would be numerous complaints that would have been addressed. FWIW, I've NEVER had anything leak into my recyclable bags, and I've used them for years. The meat, chicken or fish is already sealed, or if bought from the meat counter, wrapped in double strength paper specifically meant for wrapping these items. And produce doesn't leak.[/quote]
These complaints always fall under deaf ears whether to big grocers who would do everything protect their bag profiting scheme or brainwashed politicans who believe in all these pretty much cut and paste propaganda. Cities pay no attention to the increase garbage on the side of freeways and streets after the ban. Nor the 400% increase in alternative plastic garbage in which waste audits clearly shows. if you want read Inside Plastic Bans - Earth911.com
you will be surprised how much produce can leak. Seals can break and items can leak, some produce can be squished as items packed together in a moving car trunk. I came back from a supermarket and the "reusable" plastic bag I paid for is pretty dirty from the fruit and pineapples.
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Originally Posted by CA4Now
This is a website run by a company that "develops and promotes private, free-market alternatives to government regulation and control, solving problems by relying on the strength of the competitive, entrepreneurial private sector." Of course they're going to be against a plastic bag ban; the plastic bag companies lose profits. These people don't care about the environment.
We should ask ourselves is the last time a city or state asked a private business to "fine" its customers and pocket it. Just to coerce the end user to change. This whole movement is not about plastic or what type of bag itself this is about coercing end users using the long arm of the government using grocers as their agents.
In the end success or failure is all dependent on whether there is a fee attached that would coerce end user behavior. These groups are just as mad if plastic bags are banned but no fee is attached to alternatives.
Here is an interesting article with many citations from different sources of how the fees in CA got around tax laws. https://fighttheplasticbagban.files....-precedent.pdf
Many many resources including those that back single use bag bans i.e as successes as well as EIRs show at 3/4 of the shoppers would vote for plastic bags when given the choice on their pie charts.
An opinion piece from the San Diego Union in 2013 with no scientific data cited? The second one is a blog. I stopped reading after that.
You told us last November that all the votes hadn't been counted and that there was some chance that prop 67 wouldn't be passed. It didn't happen. It's time to move on.
These links are not for you CA4NOW, as I know truth does not matter for "bag banners" like you who march from council meetings to council meetings with bags tied all over your bodies and pushing the liberal minded council majorities to legislate that citizens or shopper in their jurisdiction must be coerced to not only dump plastics but to pay for bags as well. And then aggressively police every internet forum you can find defending their precious bag ban with the same lies, half truths that had been cut and pasted over and over with only the city, county, state, country name different.
I know not all link I put on there are scientific but there are critical data in there for those who do care for the truth. Though non of which matters anyways to people like you who just push legislation by propaganda.
The trump/Hillary effect has done great harm to who turns out at the ballot this year. It appears those who showed up are either far left or hardcore Trump supporters which represent very small percentage of the republican crowd particularly in CA. Consequently many conservative minded voters never bothered to vote this time. Being in California far left leaning Hillary supporter will of course greatly outnumber Trump supporters and they will support all left leaning policies blindly without even reading them.
Though spreading the truth is the least I can do for now. Hopefully people would heed the warnings and stay out or move out of this state or better elect non democrats back into office to fix the mess before CA becomes drowning in spilled garbage.
Last edited by citizensadvocate; 02-12-2017 at 11:00 PM..
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