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I agree with most of what you say except the fact that less restrictive gun ownership laws are directly responsible for the difference of societal and cultural habits that makes America a more violent society compared to Canada...guns are not the cause....
I also disagree with the term "gun culture" as a cover label for tendency to violence and social alienation.
I'm an avid gun collector, I go regularly to the range to spend fun time and there are people from all walk of life, professionals, blue collars public employees, lawyers, doctors, carpenters, mail men, accountants and so on...
In my experience, law abiding gun owners are among the most responsible, less prone to violence people you could possibly imagine.
The gun nuts fringe portrayed in the media are a tiny fraction of gun ownership in America...and even in that circle a tiny fraction of them commit crimes or are violent in nature.
The fact that I would not hesitate a bit to defend myself with a firearm if someone break into my house threatening my family does not make me a violent person.
Having a gun at your hip does not make it easier to suddenly become violent...you are violent in nature already or you are not....going back to your example, I would be very afraid of someone willing to shoot someone in a road rage accident even without a gun....that person would be very dangerous regardless.
This whole thing started because you wrongly asserted, that getting a gun in Canada was basically the SAME as in the US, but with a few more hoops to jump through.
You have been proven, wrong in that assertion. Handguns, being the most obvious example. Your posts showed that you DON'T really understand and know gun control in Canada. Which is a mystery to me, since the links provided by me showing you the restriction on handguns are easily understood.
You went off on a tangent by trying to assert that Canadian Gun Laws have no real effect since a crazed person or a person momentarily bent on destruction can shoot and kill people in Canada.
You seemed not to want to understand that the facts show that this is LESS likely to happen in Canada and other countries. What do all these other countries have in common? Right, strict gun control.
You did what a lot of posters like to do. You deflected the argument by basically saying " it won't happen to me since I'm not black and not a gang member and aren't crazy " so the likelihood of me being shot is the same as in Canada.
Yet again, the facts get in the way. The two year old shooting his mother being one. When told by several posters that legally in Canada that mother could not be carrying a gun, you argued.
I'm done with this. You can live in the society you choose to live in. I for one, am glad I live in a country that does not hold guns sacred and a right.
That's strange. I've rarely seen Americans bashing Canada (except on this forum). In the media and comment sections, I've only seen Canada being portrayed in a positive light (except about its Syrian refugee plan and decision to stop the airstrikes). IRL, on the rare occasion that the subject of Canada comes up, I've only heard good things being said about it (or people just make fun of it jokingly). I've also seen Canadian articles comparing Canada to the US, so it's not just on this forum.
I guess I've either been completely oblivious or I just hang out around liberal people and sites too much. I didn't realize Americans and the American media said such atrocious things about your country so often; I'm really sorry about that.
I am a POC and a Muslim, so I too am not privileged in that regard. While I agree that degrees do matter, what I meant in my previous post was that I don't think it's fair to pat yourself on the back when you have a racism problem just because your neighbor has a worse racism problem. Canada was recently rated the most tolerant country in the world, and that's great! But there's always room for improvement. We (the US AND Canada, as well as the rest of the world) must continue to strive for tolerance and diversity, which cannot happen unless we focus on what more could be done rather than how far we've come or how far behind others are.
BTW, I don't mean to bash Canada or Canadians. Personally, I strongly prefer your system over ours.
All of that is completely fair and I agree, there is still much work to be done.
The main rationale in the article is a resource grab by the US and an extension of the US' security zone. It's all about expanding US power so inevitably Canadian commie-pinko-liberal institutions and ideals will have to give way. There's also an assumption in these discussions that Canadians are yearning to be free and want to be American.
From what I've seen and researched (including the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms), Canadians enjoy substantially more freedom than Americans do.
Americans might get their hands on guns more easily, but I really don't like guns anyway, and I think the long legacy of that has led to many problems with gun violence nowadays, so that's not really a plus for me.
Last edited by ohhwanderlust; 02-07-2016 at 05:58 PM..
This whole thing started because you wrongly asserted, that getting a gun in Canada was basically the SAME as in the US, but with a few more hoops to jump through.
You have been proven, wrong in that assertion. Handguns, being the most obvious example. Your posts showed that you DON'T really understand and know gun control in Canada. Which is a mystery to me, since the links provided by me showing you the restriction on handguns are easily understood.
You went off on a tangent by trying to assert that Canadian Gun Laws have no real effect since a crazed person or a person momentarily bent on destruction can shoot and kill people in Canada.
You seemed not to want to understand that the facts show that this is LESS likely to happen in Canada and other countries. What do all these other countries have in common? Right, strict gun control.
You did what a lot of posters like to do. You deflected the argument by basically saying " it won't happen to me since I'm not black and not a gang member and aren't crazy " so the likelihood of me being shot is the same as in Canada.
Yet again, the facts get in the way. The two year old shooting his mother being one. When told by several posters that legally in Canada that mother could not be carrying a gun, you argued.
I'm done with this. You can live in the society you choose to live in. I for one, am glad I live in a country that does not hold guns sacred and a right.
I give up.....frankly you do not comprehend...
You last point....more gun control = less violence...sure...Mexico, Latin America, Russia, etc...
Unbelievable how you can be proved so clearly wrong and still trying to say you are right.....
I'm glad I live in a country where individual right to self defense (part of individual right to life) is respected and sacred.
You last point....more gun control = less violence...sure...Mexico, Latin America, Russia, etc...
.
Latin America is not a good example. If guns laws or laws in general were enforced properly and those countries had legal systems that functioned properly, there wouldn't be so much gun violence. Just because you can get away with bribing cops for carrying a concealed weapon doesn't mean the guns laws are bad or don't work, they just need to be respected and enforced. And since you mentioned Latin America, Puerto Rico doesn't have the highest homicide rate in Latin America, but it does have the highest murder rate by fire arms in Latin America and being a US territory I don't think that is a coincidence.
I'm mad that (among other things) my country, despite being the most rich and powerful, scares its own people into feeling like they need to own guns to stay safe. No one deserves to be afraid their entire life.
I'm mad that (among other things) my country, despite being the most rich and powerful, scares its own people into feeling like they need to own guns to stay safe. No one deserves to be afraid their entire life.
The number of immigrants per annum granted green cards in the US is roughly 250,000. The number of immigrants to Canada per annum granted permanent residency is... 250,000. At a 9th of the US population. That's 9 times more per capita. And Canadians still express more favourable views of Syrian refugees at immigration levels this high. However, in both Canada AND the US, anti-Muslim sentiment has been growing in recent years.
Fact check, please!
The U.S. admits approximately one million new permanent residents annually. Of these, approximately 100,000 are refugees or asylum seekers and approximately 500,000 are through family reunification which includes not just spouses, but parents and adult siblings. Google the office of immigration statistics for more.
The U.S. system differs in other aspects from Canada's: in that there is a greater emphasis on family reunification, while there is (unfortunately IMO) nothing akin to the "points system" Canada has for economic migrants; rather most economic migrants must have a job offer to come over.
The U.S. is also more accommodating to undocumented economic migrants, at least compared to the Harper years: most major cities are "sanctuary cities" starting as far back as 1976, and some states (e.g. California, Washington, New York or Colorado) allow undocumented immigrants access to ID cars/drivers licenses and to resident tuition rates at colleges and universities, awaiting immigration reform that will offer a path to citizenship (something favored by 2/3 of Americans).
This has resulted in somewhat different immigrant streams: U.S. immigrants run the gamut from those with a third grad education to those with PhDs, but 28% have university degrees compared to 51% of immigrants to Canada - e.g. Canada is more skimming those with educations while the U.S. is accepting more working-class immigrants who in Canada would only be eligible to be Temporary Foreign Workers (with a time limit of 4 years and no chance to bring their family). Immigrants with university degrees perform better in the U.S., whether its because they were chosen by employers, or because there are overall fewer of them competing in a more robust economy for high skilled jobs: immigrants with university educations slightly out-earn their U.S. counterparts while those in Canada lag in income. In addition, U.S. immigrants tend to have more children, helping the U.S. fertility rate reach replacement (2.1) rather than Canada's 1.6, while also meaning the overall immigrant- and first-generation population in the U.S. may not be that different than Canada. The U.S. also has an undocumented population of 10-11 million (just over 3% of the population); I've read Canadian estimates of perhaps 200,000 to as high as 500,000 - perhaps more like 1%.
These systems evolved over time and the U.S. system is more the result of legacies of past laws that have not been reformed. I personally liked the recent proposed Senate reform bill which would've built on a Canada-style "points system" but offered two streams - one for workers with higher education and one for trades - while maintaining family reunification.
Each system is different - but overall the U.S. seems more generous for family reunification, more tolerant of undocumented immigrants seeking a better life (outside of the Republican-controlled House of Representatives), while Canada's system allows in more immigrants per capita and provides a broader path for professionals. I think there are strengths to each system and of course room for improvement.
It is actually a very good example....because it does not fit a preconceived notion so we should set it aside....how convenient....
Nice you mention Puerto Rico....among the strictest gun laws in the US and one of the highest homicide rate by firearm in the world....actually proves my point....perfectly
Take this...Brazil, very strict gun laws....70% of homicides committed using firearms vs. 60% for the US (94% Puerto Rico).....need some more??..I give you few more...Italy 66.7% and......Switzerland, 72.2%
Last edited by saturno_v; 02-08-2016 at 12:49 PM..
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