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The U.S. admits approximately one million new permanent residents annually. Of these, approximately 100,000 are refugees or asylum seekers and approximately 500,000 are through family reunification which includes not just spouses, but parents and adult siblings. Google the office of immigration statistics for more.
The U.S. system differs in other aspects from Canada's: in that there is a greater emphasis on family reunification, while there is (unfortunately IMO) nothing akin to the "points system" Canada has for economic migrants; rather most economic migrants must have a job offer to come over.
The U.S. is also more accommodating to undocumented economic migrants, at least compared to the Harper years: most major cities are "sanctuary cities" starting as far back as 1976, and some states (e.g. California, Washington, New York or Colorado) allow undocumented immigrants access to ID cars/drivers licenses and to resident tuition rates at colleges and universities, awaiting immigration reform that will offer a path to citizenship (something favored by 2/3 of Americans).
This has resulted in somewhat different immigrant streams: U.S. immigrants run the gamut from those with a third grad education to those with PhDs, but 28% have university degrees compared to 51% of immigrants to Canada - e.g. Canada is more skimming those with educations while the U.S. is accepting more working-class immigrants who in Canada would only be eligible to be Temporary Foreign Workers (with a time limit of 4 years and no chance to bring their family). Immigrants with university degrees perform better in the U.S., whether its because they were chosen by employers, or because there are overall fewer of them competing in a more robust economy for high skilled jobs: immigrants with university educations slightly out-earn their U.S. counterparts while those in Canada lag in income. In addition, U.S. immigrants tend to have more children, helping the U.S. fertility rate reach replacement (2.1) rather than Canada's 1.6, while also meaning the overall immigrant- and first-generation population in the U.S. may not be that different than Canada. The U.S. also has an undocumented population of 10-11 million (just over 3% of the population); I've read Canadian estimates of perhaps 200,000 to as high as 500,000 - perhaps more like 1%.
These systems evolved over time and the U.S. system is more the result of legacies of past laws that have not been reformed. I personally liked the recent proposed Senate reform bill which would've built on a Canada-style "points system" but offered two streams - one for workers with higher education and one for trades - while maintaining family reunification.
Each system is different - but overall the U.S. seems more generous for family reunification, more tolerant of undocumented immigrants seeking a better life (outside of the Republican-controlled House of Representatives), while Canada's system allows in more immigrants per capita and provides a broader path for professionals. I think there are strengths to each system and of course room for improvement.
Well said.....completely different immigration system and actually some very accommodating states (the mentioned issuing of ID to undocumented worker)
The U.S. admits approximately one million new permanent residents annually. Of these, approximately 100,000 are refugees or asylum seekers and approximately 500,000 are through family reunification which includes not just spouses, but parents and adult siblings. Google the office of immigration statistics for more.
The U.S. system differs in other aspects from Canada's: in that there is a greater emphasis on family reunification, while there is (unfortunately IMO) nothing akin to the "points system" Canada has for economic migrants; rather most economic migrants must have a job offer to come over.
The U.S. is also more accommodating to undocumented economic migrants, at least compared to the Harper years: most major cities are "sanctuary cities" starting as far back as 1976, and some states (e.g. California, Washington, New York or Colorado) allow undocumented immigrants access to ID cars/drivers licenses and to resident tuition rates at colleges and universities, awaiting immigration reform that will offer a path to citizenship (something favored by 2/3 of Americans).
This has resulted in somewhat different immigrant streams: U.S. immigrants run the gamut from those with a third grad education to those with PhDs, but 28% have university degrees compared to 51% of immigrants to Canada - e.g. Canada is more skimming those with educations while the U.S. is accepting more working-class immigrants who in Canada would only be eligible to be Temporary Foreign Workers (with a time limit of 4 years and no chance to bring their family). Immigrants with university degrees perform better in the U.S., whether its because they were chosen by employers, or because there are overall fewer of them competing in a more robust economy for high skilled jobs: immigrants with university educations slightly out-earn their U.S. counterparts while those in Canada lag in income. In addition, U.S. immigrants tend to have more children, helping the U.S. fertility rate reach replacement (2.1) rather than Canada's 1.6, while also meaning the overall immigrant- and first-generation population in the U.S. may not be that different than Canada. The U.S. also has an undocumented population of 10-11 million (just over 3% of the population); I've read Canadian estimates of perhaps 200,000 to as high as 500,000 - perhaps more like 1%.
These systems evolved over time and the U.S. system is more the result of legacies of past laws that have not been reformed. I personally liked the recent proposed Senate reform bill which would've built on a Canada-style "points system" but offered two streams - one for workers with higher education and one for trades - while maintaining family reunification.
Each system is different - but overall the U.S. seems more generous for family reunification, more tolerant of undocumented immigrants seeking a better life (outside of the Republican-controlled House of Representatives), while Canada's system allows in more immigrants per capita and provides a broader path for professionals. I think there are strengths to each system and of course room for improvement.
As I recall, the historical rate has been 250,000 per annum, from inception of the union until at least 1990. I understand that with changes around 2010 to naturalization laws that millions have now been extended citizenship; this may have affected the averages and maybe the rate has increased since then. I did not count refugees or employer-sponsored Visas in the Canadian figure so obviously chose not to include the 145,000 annual American employer Visas or 160,000 annual asylum seekers in the American figure as well as you appear to have done.
Concerning this portion:
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immigrants with university educations slightly out-earn their U.S. counterparts while those in Canada lag in income.
You'll recall, I was the person who said here: //www.city-data.com/forum/42895102-post1055.html
that, "...There are some good things about the States; I actually would go so far as to say that when it comes to professional advancement, America is more of a meritocracy than Canada is. "...There is a reason that Asians have the highest income out of all ethnic groups (save for Jews) in America and do not in Canada despite having equally high levels of educational attainment in both countries."
I also said here: //www.city-data.com/forum/42896400-post1094.html that, "I asked very pointedly how joining America and importing in their problems (which I definitely do believe are worse there for minorities, but it depends on what matters to you, if it's social acceptance, personal safety, or money-making potential) would help improve our own situation." For the third time, I never stated that Canada is a panacea. My argument remains for the two cultures to be preserved distinctively and not in any way fused or amalgamated.
Certainly, the US is more tolerant of undocumented migrants, you'll find no argument from me on that point. The laws under Jason Kenney became restrictive to the point where absent the educational or professional requirements in the various skilled categories where we are seeking workers, unless you had considerable family wealth that could get you fast-tracked on an investor Visa, there is absolutely no point in attempting to emigrate to Canada.
Last edited by torontocheeka; 02-08-2016 at 02:51 PM..
saturno_v, just wondering, who are you arguing with exactly? Because not a single Canadian soul here has advocated for more gun control in the United States. So I have to assume that it's yourself?
saturno_v, just wondering, who are you arguing with exactly? Because not a single Canadian soul here has advocated for more gun control in the United States. So I have to assume that it's yourself?
I'm arguing against the nonsensical axiom more legal guns = more crime.....absolutely wrong and proved so many times but still some people believe it....
On another subject, you very correctly "I actually would go so far as to say that when it comes to professional advancement, America is more of a meritocracy than Canada is"...yes indeed this is why America is vastly more desirable than Canada for immigrants (I was one in both countries), after all it is one of the major reasons why someone emigrate out of his/her home nation...despite all problems in America (some very real, some imagined) it is still the #1 country of choice for immigrants to go, Canada has never been as coveted and never will in the foreseeable future.
Last edited by saturno_v; 02-08-2016 at 03:06 PM..
We are far more selective with immigrants, I don't think we're aiming for the most numerically or we wouldn't be adding more rules to our already lauded points system.
Furthermore, you can believe what you want: re. the gun issue. All things being equal (development and poverty) countries with more guns per head have more murder. This is fact. If Americans think being the wealthy country with the most murder and accidental death is a point of pride, who am I to argue? Frankly, I think anyone with such a mentality is mentally ill and I don't want them anywhere near my province or immediate vicinity.
We are far more selective with immigrants, I don't think we're aiming for the most numerically or we wouldn't be adding more rules to our already lauded points system.
What?? Another nonsense statement?? It is way more difficult to be able to get an immigrant visa for the US than Canada (I'm not talking family reunion/refugeed)...the US is way more selective than Canada and it can afford to do so.
I got my PR for Canada in 3 months (independent category) without even an interview and I would have never ever been able to get a Green Card with my qualifications.
The Canada point system is a joke in its actual implementation. Sometimes coming to Canada as been as easy fogging a mirror.
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Furthermore, you can believe what you want: re. the gun issue. All things being equal (development and poverty) countries with more guns per head have more murder. This is fact. If Americans think being the wealthy country with the most murder and accidental death is a point of pride, who am I to argue? Frankly, I think anyone with such a mentality is mentally ill and I don't want them anywhere near my province or immediate vicinity.
Exactly, you can believe what you want...I totally understand that being a socialist (by your own admission) you have a chronic incapacity to understand fundamental individual rights when they do not fit you preconceived ideas about how people should live their own lives.
Last edited by saturno_v; 02-08-2016 at 05:06 PM..
We are far more selective with immigrants, I don't think we're aiming for the most numerically or we wouldn't be adding more rules to our already lauded points system.
That isn't even close to true. The US is suredly the most difficult place to immigrate in the western world and also the #1 destination. Canada is often a background plan. I have even been in the US and seen the Canadian government advertising to potential immigrants who didn't make the cut that they should consider coming to Canada where they are far more likely to be accepted.
The government even advertises in the US to try to snatch the rejects who don't make it onto Team USA. That like picking up the US's table scraps.
As you can tell I think we are in major need of immigration reform.
That isn't even close to true. The US is suredly the most difficult place to immigrate in the western world and also the #1 destination. Canada is often a background plan. I have even been in the US and seen the Canadian government advertising to potential immigrants who didn't make the cut that they should consider coming to Canada where they are far more likely to be accepted.
The government even advertises in the US to try to snatch the rejects who don't make it onto Team USA. That like picking up the US's table scraps.
As you can tell I think we are in major need of immigration reform.
Ahahah!!! That is a good one PB
The thing that keeps me around in the Canadian forum is the incredible self delusion some people have on this board.
Canada is even less desirable than Australia among professional immigrants in my experience....some of the reason some immigrants did pick Canada over Australia is because of the closeness to the US...others hope to make it just a springboard to come to the US.
The thing that keeps me around in the Canadian forum is the incredible self delusion some people have on this board.
Canada is even less desirable than Australia among professional immigrants in my experience....some of the reason some immigrants did pick Canada over Australia is because of the closeness to the US...others hope to make it just a springboard to come to the US.
Why poke a stick in an ant nest? Not really adding anything to the discussion.
Australia is desirable because, well, it's desirable as the "lucky country". Beautiful place, friendly people, nice climate. Most of Canada's climate isn't as sought after by most immigrants.
I do agree with the posts that state that the US is more selective about non-familial immigrants. And even with those bringing over their aunts and uncles, etc. it can take 10-20 years or more to do so due to the country quotas.
While the US has a lot of H-1B and L-1B visa holders, they are NOT immigrant visas. These holders are permitted to seek permanent residence, but have to be sponsored by their employer, or be sponsored by a spouse. The wait can also be several years just to get through the basic hurdles that lead to an adjustment of status. There is then a 5 year wait to apply for citizenship (3 if by marriage). Australia is a lot easier, I believe it's 2 years after PR status.
Not having gone through the process to become a landed immigrant in Canada I am not 100% sure of the difficulty, but I know that it does take a certain # of days (4 years worth) and time prior to permanent residence counts towards this number at a reduced rate.
What?? Another nonsense statement?? It is way more difficult to be able to get an immigrant visa for the US than Canada (I'm not talking family reunion/refugeed)...the US is way more selective than Canada and it can afford to do so.
I got my PR for Canada in 3 months (independent category) without even an interview and I would have never ever been able to get a Green Card with my qualifications.
The Canada point system is a joke in its actual implementation. Sometimes coming to Canada as been as easy fogging a mirror.
Exactly, you can believe what you want...I totally understand that being a socialist (by your own admission) you have a chronic incapacity to understand fundamental individual rights when they do not fit you preconceived ideas about how people should live their own lives.
Well that's interesting considering the many professionals I personally know who've been rejected, the most recent an Irish immigration hopeful who also had his employer willing to sponsor him and was working as an IT manager; he is now living with his Canadian girlfriend in Singapore.
I will say that if you can manage to accrue enough consecutive years in the country (3) you can apply for P.R. based on this, (a reason to pay for the student visa, I suppose), it's sort of a back-door way in, but the same can be said for the US or they wouldn't have a situation where 11 million illegals are being offered amnesty.
I'm glad for you that the Canadian government had the ill foresight to invite in a gun enthusiast with disdain for the country, however, as they say, anecdote /=/ data.
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