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The (many - not all) Europeans' hatred of anything American is long standing, fueled by the equal mix of valid reasons, hypocrisy, self-aggrandizement, and dick envy. The French in particular can't forgive us for liberating them yet refusing to put a French general in charge of Allied forces fighting in France so that they could claim it was their victory. It's like you help a girl who just crapped herself - she'd never go on a date with you
The latest round of America hatred came after Dubya invaded Iraq against the wishes of the Europeans. While I still think that removing Saddam was a wrong thing to do, and actually agree that we should've listened, I can't help but feel that the sheer amount and viciousness of anti-American hysteria has far more to do with hurt feelings and wounded pride and anger at being slighted, than with actual moral objections to the war. Otherwise there would be an equally vocal and ferocious opposition to the very similar war in Libya - which was started by the European governments.
And the reason that the Europeans got in this situation in first place is because they don't want to spend the funding necessary for protection of their homeland, but they detest being pushed around by the US who provides them with protection.
Most Europeans don't have a clue about those things or don't care about those things let alone give Americans the blame for that.
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This almost sounds like a bad marital relationship and I think both sides would benefit from Europe becoming more independent and able to take care of itself with it's own resources. Otherwise the next boyfriend may end up being even worse
The EU, and that's not even the whole of Europe, has a GDP which is 1 - 1.5 trillion $ larger than the US. We will manage, thanks.
Most Europeans don't have a clue about those things or don't care about those things let alone give Americans the blame for that. .
I must've been traveling in some parallel universe back in 2006. I got so freaking tired of getting grilled on Bush and Iraq by random people, I was seriously considering buying a Maple leaf sweatshirt for the next time.
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Originally Posted by drro
The EU, and that's not even the whole of Europe, has a GDP which is 1 - 1.5 trillion $ larger than the US. We will manage, thanks.
And yet your all of your militaries combined - except perhaps the U.K. - don't amount to much, and the US is still providing over 70% of NATO defensive capability.
For God's sake, after first severely criticizing the US for Iraq, and then proudly starting their own war in Libya, the Europeans had to swallow their pride and run to Obama for help when they nearly spent all of their munitions and didn't achieve squat after several weeks of bombardment. In weak Libya.
What would you do if the fight was with Russia or China ? Roll over ?
Germany just last year had a very embarrassing report on the state of their armed forces. Half - sometimes more - of their core equipment (tanks, airplanes etc) not in working condition. Their main battle rifle can't be used for sustained fire.
What's to say then about the country like the Netherlands? Do you deserve your independence if you can't be bothered with maintaining the military necessary to protect it ?
Look at the Russia / Ukraine situation, China and the South China Sea, the rapidly changing Turkey, Iran with their nukes just a step away, the Islamic world going off their rails. Whoever told you that the future is full of peace and cooperation, lied. In the future, just like in the past, you need to be able to defend yourself, or find a strong ally - and with the new power centers rising all over the world, and the nuclear genie getting out of the bottle, more so now than ever.
While I oppose the US becoming the world policeman and spending way too much on defense while our infrastructure is in bad need of upgrades, at least we are not dependent on others for protection. You are.
Last edited by Ummagumma; 09-15-2016 at 01:43 PM..
Very good analysis. I would also like to add that most of anti-american sentiment comes from the Left. US being the biggest capitalist country is the red rag for all kind of "socialists".
Not left but moderates. Average people at no position on the political spectrum hate the extreme right. As a left leaning person myself, I do hate the U.S. Far too capitalist.
It's an absolute fact. I can even still picture her in my head. Ask some other Canadians for their experiences.
You are also incorrect in saying I have a low opinion of Americans. Did you not read where I state I defended the US on these occasions? Have you not read that I have family and friends in the US? Did you not know that I visit the US fairly often because I enjoy it?
The fact that you refuse to believe a simple story about someone in Europe who is anti-American ( did you not think they exist? ) is what is ridiculous.
Nope, I just don't believe that Dutch people sit on trains and badmouth Americans, nor do I believe Canadians are sitting around listening to such crap. I Just think people have better things to do. Unless of course they are crazy, which is possible.
Not left but moderates. Average people at no position on the political spectrum hate the extreme right. As a left leaning person myself, I do hate the U.S. Far too capitalist.
What's considered a moderate stance is relative.
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Originally Posted by Mr. Joshua
Nope, I just don't believe that Dutch people sit on trains and badmouth Americans, nor do I believe Canadians are sitting around listening to such crap. I Just think people have better things to do. Unless of course they are crazy, which is possible.
Don't know about the Dutch, but some of the French and Belgians went out of their way to make sure I got an earful about just how terrible Bush, the US, Iraqi war, American idiocy etc. were. Completely unsolicited, too.
Nope, I just don't believe that Dutch people sit on trains and badmouth Americans, nor do I believe Canadians are sitting around listening to such crap. I Just think people have better things to do. Unless of course they are crazy, which is possible.
I really don't care if you believe me, if it makes you feel better. I know what happened.
I totally believe Nat's story and yours, but I also suppose that Canadians wouldn't like the fact that many foreigners lump Canadians in with Americans, and that many of the stereotypes they have of Americans (admittedly ignorant), they also automatically attribute to Canadians.
It doesn't bother me. Austrians, New Zealanders have similar reactions when they travel...as do many from Scandinavia
My conversation with a German in Berlin who assumed that Canada and the US had the same laws ( I know ) was more humorous than anything.
I have no idea if Mr. Joshua has his head in the sand, Nat. You'll have to ask him that.
I didn't say I didn't believe your story. I do. Europeans, like Americans, like Canadians, like Aussies or anyone else, can be bigoted idiots who make ridiculous, sweeping comments about an entire country and its people. I was relating my experience in the matter, too, so chill.
I am chill, but the purpose of your post? Was it to inform me that people say bad things about Canadians? Assuming I didn't know?
Very good analysis. I would also like to add that most of anti-american sentiment comes from the Left. US being the biggest capitalist country is the red rag for all kind of "socialists".
Proof? I'm quite left and have no hatred for Americans. I do despise some of the US government policies, especially under Baby Bush, but that doesn't make me treat Americans poorly. I'm smarter than that.
There are two different types of " hate ". Hate is reserved for mostly wing nuts who are ignorant of basic facts, or are so driven by ideology as to be blind.
Most of the negative attitudes I encountered in Europe wasn't hate, but dislike. Again mostly based on assumptions. Some based on experience of interacting with Americans, some who had travelled to a part of the US and weren't impressed. These people most likely had a variety of partisan allegiances.
Dixiegirl, yes I know that some Canadians behave poorly while abroad and some may taint all Canadians from those experiences.
Proof? I'm quite left and have no hatred for Americans. I do despise some of the US government policies, especially under Baby Bush, but that doesn't make me treat Americans poorly. I'm smarter than that.
There are two different types of " hate ". Hate is reserved for mostly wing nuts who are ignorant of basic facts, or are so driven by ideology as to be blind.
Most of the negative attitudes I encountered in Europe wasn't hate, but dislike. Again mostly based on assumptions. Some based on experience of interacting with Americans, some who had travelled to a part of the US and weren't impressed. These people most likely had a variety of partisan allegiances.
Dixiegirl, yes I know that some Canadians behave poorly while abroad and some may taint all Canadians from those experiences.
Same here. I don't hate Americans at all. I do hate the country and how it operates though.
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