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How can it be colonial? I am a French Canadian living in Canada! My ancestors were in Canada centuries before France began colonizing North Africa and the Middle East. We never colonized anyone over there. Neither did "Canada".
As for being paternalistic (which assume to be a reference to the male-female thing) it would make sense if women were overwhelmingly of one view. Whereas views on various modesty-imposed hair, face and body coverings vary widely among women and there is no consensus. I also give a lot of credence to the opinion of women in places like Iran who have much more direct experience with all of than than our posh champagne-sipping hijab fans here in the West.
Maybe I'm using the wrong words and I'm not trying to cause offense. I don't understand how you would think as a French Canadian you would have escaped the insidious creeping of the idea of cultural superiority. Or, as you've said, being raised primarily in English Canada, the colonial creeping of it's imperialistic history. Even I haven't escaped that. (I have a really bad headache and have the sneaking suspicion that "creeping" is probably not the word I'm looking for either).
No, I didn't mean paternalistic in reference to any male-female thing - I meant in the way one culture looks down their nose at other cultures and feels the other culture needs to be gently led to an understanding of why their culture is inferior to another.
There is an interesting article on Wikipedia on cultural identity which presents a study to the effect of:
The researchers concluded that most studies find that being bicultural, the combination of a strong ethnic and a strong national identity, yields the best adaptation in the new country of residence. An article by LaFromboise, L. K. Colemna, and Gerton, reviews the literature on the impact of being bicultural. It showed that it is possible to have the ability to obtain competence within two cultures without losing one's sense of identity or having to identity with one culture over the other. (LaFromboise Et Al. 1993) The
That is exactly what I was getting at. Who should we listen to on these matters, privileged western women? Or actual Muslim women like those in Iran that actually do get attacked for not wearing head coverings. Or coptic women that I have worked with personally and have told me that they were harrassed constantly, abused and spit on for not wearing head coversing in Cairo. Why do some western women totally ignore these voices? It's as if they want to pretend these things don't happen or they want to sweep things under the rug.
Sounds like you're importing a lot of American narratives into Canada here.
Never heard of the Black Hebrew Israelites in Canada. Did they just come for a visit of something? They're hardly active or visible here.
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PDW can barely make a post on here without making a reference to American politics or social issues.
THe Black Hebrew Isrealites have a few small groups here in Canada but they are mainly an African American hate group, that claims that black Americans along with latinos are the real isrealites, the lost 12 tribes of Isreal. It's insane. They claim that the real native americans are Black and that the transaltantic slave trade never happened and Black people have always been here. (many Black- American Muslims also make this claim). They have increasingly been targeting Hispanics folks, specially those of Mesoamerican background. They believe the Olmecs and Mayans were really Black and that Latinos should just accept that. Sadly it is not just the BHI pushing this nonsense.
Ok so you agree that head coverings are not always a simple matter of choice then. What exactly was your problem with me bringing this up yesterday?
I'm not sure what you are referring to. The only thing I recall is saying/agreeing with Irene that IN CANADA women do not need men to tell them what to wear, be that a head covering or not. Be that entirely voluntary or not. You cannot judge whether a woman is being pressured to wear it or not. I am tired of men defining what they think women should need.
If it is not voluntary it needs to come from the woman to reject it of her own volition. And it doesn't matter if it takes her 10 years. That's life. That's what learning is about.
I'm not sure what you are referring to. The only thing I recall is saying/agreeing with Irene that IN CANADA women do not need men to tell them what to wear, be that a head covering or not. Be that entirely voluntary or not. You cannot judge whether a woman is being pressured to wear it or not. I am tired of men defining what they think women should need.
Yeah after she accsued me of trying to tell women what to wear. Thats ridiculous. Didn't things like burqas come from men telling women what to do? Did you not see the article I just posted? ...Oh right thats not canada, they would never bring those cultural attitudes here.
Quote:
If it is not voluntary it needs to come from the woman to reject it of her own volition. And it doesn't matter if it takes her 10 years. That's life. That's what learning is about.
[/quote]
Do you realize how hyporcitical that sounds? You just praised women that wear head coverings because they're "defiant to western ideas". Now your bascially saying to young women and girls, if you father or brothers threatens to beat you for not wearing a head covering oh well, you're on your own.
This is why Quebecs rules around religious sybols are so important. It sends a clear message that in this society you don't HAVE to wear it. It challenges some of the more fanatical elements. People that bash Quebec over the religious symbols rules are just virtue signalling and are hypocrites. I am alway shocked how unreasonable anglo canadians are over this.
Last edited by Luisito80; 11-02-2023 at 05:16 PM..
Yeah after she accsued me of trying to tell women what to wear. Thats ridiculous.
Own your words:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisito80
Well I mean thats exactly what I was saying. Head coverings represent a very radical fundamentalist for of Islam. We shouldn't be so quick to shoot down cirticism of such coverings. Specially when many Muslims women themselves speak out against this.
Yes, instead of saying there is nothing to see here, when Muslim women speak out against things like burqas we should listen. That is what I meant. Never ever did I say what women should wear.
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