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I would also say that when Mennonites behave badly, I cringe. I'm so embarrassed. I think straight away that they are giving "us" a bad name. Does a Canadian cringe when a Canadian behaves badly in Canada?
I cringe when I see French-speaking Canadians behave badly. I tell my kids that they "represent us" when abroad, so they better not make us look like a bunch of boors.
I don't generally feel the same way about Canadians in general because "Canadian" is just too vague and diffuse an in-group.
Though I will cringe at the actions of the Canadian government and state, and its leaders.
Canada is one of the best countries in the world but my culture is not bad either. I wouldn't want to lose it and I don't think it has any negative impact on Canada if Hutterites wear their clothes or Old Order Mennonites drive their buggies. Or a Sikh wears a headdress.
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I won't get into which cultures are good or bad or better or worse fundamentally because I think that if people in country X want to live a certain way then it's their right to do so whether it aligns with my values or not.
Though I do have an opinion of which cultures and cultural practices are desirable for implantation in Canada or for us to emulate or get influenced by.
This is perfectly normal of course and even healthy. Or at least... essential.
Otherwise, Canada isn't really a country but more like a hotel of some kind.
I don't see every single government department (seemingly) or private companies subtly extolling the virtues of striptease in their advertising and communications these days.
Let's see - men who proclaim an interest in women's rights and a concern that covered women are being held against their will versus men who have no problem leering at naked women in a dubious profession they would never want for their own daughters...
Neon lights advertising dehumanized strippers' bodies at a club versus women in religious clothing in subtle advertising throwing a ball with big smiles on their faces, showing that they are human beings too.
Fwiw, I think prostitution should be legal. Take the power from the pimps. Not because I think this is a great profession but because I am a realist and there will always be women who feel they have no other choice.
I won't get into which cultures are good or bad or better or worse fundamentally because I think that if people in country X want to live a certain way then it's their right to do so whether it aligns with my values or not.
Though I do have an opinion of which cultures and cultural practices are desirable for implantation in Canada or for us to emulate or get influenced by.
This is perfectly normal of course and even healthy. Or at least... essential.
Otherwise, Canada isn't really a country but more like a hotel of some kind.
Mennonites traditionally see countries as a kind of hotel. I think that's changed some but it's hard to tell. Mennonites saw Russia as their Golden Age and were assimilating. They had become in many ways more of a culture than a religion and yet they chose to leave when they had a choice between country and religion.
Traditionally, the belief is that the only home we have is Heaven and that, as God wills, we might find a sanctuary in different countries but don't get too attached as you might have to leave again.
Oh, and I also have opinions on cultures and I don't believe everything is equal. I just have a different idea on how democracy impacts other cultures.
I don't understand how people can get so upset about women covering their bodies and shrug off women not wearing clothing, in a line of work heavily linked to sex trafficking.
How many women do you personally know that strip? Have you ever met any strippers? Can you spot a stripper walking on the street? How many strip venues do you have where you live?
As far as the head covering who is getting upset over that? I know some Muslims women themselves that have denounced them. Would you be willing to listen to them or is your mind made up about this?
I think that immigrants all do that - adopt some of the ways of the new country with the old. I don't think there's any way of getting around that.
Canada is one of the best countries in the world but my culture is not bad either. I wouldn't want to lose it and I don't think it has any negative impact on Canada if Hutterites wear their clothes or Old Order Mennonites drive their buggies. Or a Sikh wears a headdress.
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You culture while unique is also not entirely different from the founding culture and belief system of Canada. Same race same religion.
Thank you for your reply. Sounds like an interesting history. I admit I don't know very much about the Anabaptist tradition. I look forward to learning more about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit
Okay, to clarify, when I use the term " Mennonite," I don’t mean Germans. When I say "Germans," I don't mean Mennonites. Mennonites come from the Friesland area of the Netherlands, spilling over the border into Germany. They arose during the Reformation and through a former priest, Menno Simons, became persecuted for their beliefs such as nonviolence, no swearing of oaths, and no involvement in government. They decided the best way to live those beliefs was through an agrarian lifestyle.
How their beliefs differ from Catholic or Anglican beliefs would be those things, plus adult baptism. They believed babies did not go to hell and that only adults (around the late teens and up) could make a conscious decision to be a Christian.
The Bible was the same.
Their creed was the Sermon on the Mount.
They were burned and drowned for their beliefs and fleeing persecution eventually ended up in what is now Poland but used to be Germany. Whichever prince allowed them to live in peace. Of course it ended up more complicated than that, but that was the general idea.
Mennonites were hard workers and their hard work turned land thought to be infertile into productive land. Then the princes suddenly decided they wanted the land and Mennonites moved. That is what nonviolence means to us. Catherine the Great, Tsarina of Russia invited Mennonites to settle in Ukraine on an empty steppe (if you didn’t count the nomadic tribes) on their terms. No military service in perpetuity, no oaths, their own schools. Just in the nick of time from greedy Prussian princes. Or, as Mennonites would have said - God provided.
After 100 years in Prussia they moved to Ukraine. The 1874 Mennonites smelled Revolution in the air and when a German Canadian advocated for Mennonite settlements in the west to guard against the threat of American expansionism, they presented their conditions and the Canadian government accepted and that is the beginning of Mennonite history in Canada. 7000 came in 1874. Not sure what Manitoba's population was then.
Let's see - men who proclaim an interest in women's rights and a concern that covered women are being held against their will versus men who have no problem leering at naked women in a dubious profession they would never want for their own daughters...
Neon lights advertising dehumanized strippers' bodies at a club versus women in religious clothing in subtle advertising throwing a ball with big smiles on their faces, showing that they are human beings too.
Fwiw, I think prostitution should be legal. Take the power from the pimps. Not because I think this is a great profession but because I am a realist and there will always be women who feel they have no other choice.
Strip club signage is not typically explicit at least in Canada, even though of course we know what it's all about.
I don't know why we would assume that men who have reservations about the hijab would be more predominantly those who attend strip clubs to leer at women, or even do more than that in there.
Presumably, there are men who are pro-hijab who also frequent strip clubs. It's not hard to picture this existing.
In any event, I don't get the comparison too much because I clearly wasn't arguing in favour of the government and other entities in the public realm encouraging, valorising or condoning striptease.
I'm saying what is your proof it goes that way when it has not gone that way in all of Canadian and American history?
Sorry what do you mean by this?
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