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I'm happy to debate that but what specifically did Luis say about what integration is? I'm lost here.
Mennonites did not need to integrate at all in 1874. The Canadian government wasn't really in the position to require anything of them. They needed farmers accustomed to working in cold climates, on dry land. Mennonites were promised what they asked for - their own German schools and exemption from military service and swearing of oaths. When the Canadian government reneged on the school promise later, round about the 1920s, thousands of Mennonites (I think 7000 but don't want to look it up) left for Paraguay and Mexico. That really hurt Manitoba. It was something the newspapers at time sneered at, saying that regardless of what the bishops say, Mennonites would never leave this wonderful country. But they did.
It will be interesting (to me) to see what happens the next time faith and government collide.
1874 Canada was barely a country and from what i can see Mennonites have integrated just fine into Canada and the US also. I have read that German ancestry is the largest ancestry group in the US. I am not saying all Germans are Mennonites. Your comment was specific about Mennonites, I am just point out that many people here are of German background and spoke German.
Something I have always wondered, how different are Mennonites religious beliefs from other Protestant groups like Anglicans and Presbyterians? Would their family Bibles be all that different?
Last edited by Luisito80; 11-01-2023 at 12:04 PM..
I am posting a video but before people respond: yes, I know that native-born Canadians also have their own conflicts that can occasionally get violent.
My question however is this: do we want more or less of this stuff? Do we want to encourage people to retain their old country grievances* and increasingly act on them here in Canada? Or would we prefer that they leave this stuff behind and integrate or assimilate into what is still arguably (even if not perfect) one of the more peaceful societies in the world?
(*Keeping in mind that the number of old country grievances out there in the wider world is almost limitless.)
1874 Canada was barely a country and from what i can see Mennonites have integrated just fine into Canada and the US also. I have read that German ancestry is the largest ancestry group in the US. I am not saying all Germans are Mennonites. Your comment was specific about Mennonites, I am just point out that many people here are of German background and spoke German.
Something I have always wondere, how different are Mennonites religious beliefs from other Protestant groups like Anglicans and Presbyterians? Would their family Bibles be all that different?
Okay, to clarify, when I use the term " Mennonite," I don’t mean Germans. When I say "Germans," I don't mean Mennonites. Mennonites come from the Friesland area of the Netherlands, spilling over the border into Germany. They arose during the Reformation and through a former priest, Menno Simons, became persecuted for their beliefs such as nonviolence, no swearing of oaths, and no involvement in government. They decided the best way to live those beliefs was through an agrarian lifestyle.
How their beliefs differ from Catholic or Anglican beliefs would be those things, plus adult baptism. They believed babies did not go to hell and that only adults (around the late teens and up) could make a conscious decision to be a Christian.
The Bible was the same.
Their creed was the Sermon on the Mount.
They were burned and drowned for their beliefs and fleeing persecution eventually ended up in what is now Poland but used to be Germany. Whichever prince allowed them to live in peace. Of course it ended up more complicated than that, but that was the general idea.
Mennonites were hard workers and their hard work turned land thought to be infertile into productive land. Then the princes suddenly decided they wanted the land and Mennonites moved. That is what nonviolence means to us. Catherine the Great, Tsarina of Russia invited Mennonites to settle in Ukraine on an empty steppe (if you didn’t count the nomadic tribes) on their terms. No military service in perpetuity, no oaths, their own schools. Just in the nick of time from greedy Prussian princes. Or, as Mennonites would have said - God provided.
After 100 years in Prussia they moved to Ukraine. The 1874 Mennonites smelled Revolution in the air and when a German Canadian advocated for Mennonite settlements in the west to guard against the threat of American expansionism, they presented their conditions and the Canadian government accepted and that is the beginning of Mennonite history in Canada. 7000 came in 1874. Not sure what Manitoba's population was then.
I am posting a video but before people respond: yes, I know that native-born Canadians also have their own conflicts that can occasionally get violent.
My question however is this: do we want more or less of this stuff? Do we want to encourage people to retain their old country grievances* and increasingly act on them here in Canada? Or would we prefer that they leave this stuff behind and integrate or assimilate into what is still arguably (even if not perfect) one of the more peaceful societies in the world?
(*Keeping in mind that the number of old country grievances out there in the wider world is almost limitless.)
Quebeckers can get pretty opinionated too. As I'm sure you know. No matter how far back they go in Quebec. I guess if one is looking for examples of immigrants behaving badly, there are many examples. There are also many examples of many generations white Canadians behaving badly. Since it seems a wash, I would ask for examples of how this behavior continues over two and three generations?
Having been drowned and burned at the stake by Catholics and Lutherans, Mennonites have not been too fond of either. Ancestral memory exists even 500 years after the fact. We managed.
I would also say that when Mennonites behave badly, I cringe. I'm so embarrassed. I think straight away that they are giving "us" a bad name. Does a Canadian cringe when a Canadian behaves badly in Canada?
Not entirely but they most adopt ways of the new country in order to really become a part of it. That is what integration means
Combine (one thing) with another so that they become a whole. In this case immigrants adopting the characteristics of the society they are moving to. Is that really such a bad thing? Is Canada such a bad place we have to discard its history, culture for something new?
I think that immigrants all do that - adopt some of the ways of the new country with the old. I don't think there's any way of getting around that.
Canada is one of the best countries in the world but my culture is not bad either. I wouldn't want to lose it and I don't think it has any negative impact on Canada if Hutterites wear their clothes or Old Order Mennonites drive their buggies. Or a Sikh wears a headdress.
While I was walking the dogs, I remembered that there are a lot of Sikh fruit farmers in BC. Speaking of farmers.
Quebeckers can get pretty opinionated too. As I'm sure you know. No matter how far back they go in Quebec. I guess if one is looking for examples of immigrants behaving badly, there are many examples. There are also many examples of many generations white Canadians behaving badly. Since it seems a wash, I would ask for examples of how this behavior continues over two and three generations?
So basically you're saying you don't care much which way it goes.
I don't understand how people can get so upset about women covering their bodies and shrug off women not wearing clothing, in a line of work heavily linked to sex trafficking.
I don't understand how people can get so upset about women covering their bodies and shrug off women not wearing clothing, in a line of work heavily linked to sex trafficking.
I don't see every single government department (seemingly) or private companies subtly extolling the virtues of striptease in their advertising and communications these days.
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Quebeckers can get pretty opinionated too. As I'm sure you know. No matter how far back they go in Quebec. I guess if one is looking for examples of immigrants behaving badly, there are many examples. There are also many examples of many generations white Canadians behaving badly. Since it seems a wash, I would ask for examples of how this behavior continues over two and three generations?
