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I will ask you again and this time please don't get hysterical.
What do you want SPECIFICALLY to happen to the "greedy" people on wall street? Who are they? What are there legal crimes? What penalities should government force on the companies they work for??? Are you talking about General Electric? Are you talking about Bank of America?
I don't want generalities or 2% blah, blah, blah.......
Can you please give me a non-politician like answer w/some specifics so we can move the conversation along?
LOL! No one is hysterical....LOL
You are asking me to give you answers on something that I haven't even gone down the path of. Not sure what you are trying to get to here.
But speaking of GE just saw the CEO on 60 minutes.....interesting interview.
They are no more or less a legitimate movement than the TEA party. The TEA party is outraged about bank bailouts as is OWS. Some of their demands are outrageous as is the TEA party.
What "demands" are these Occupy folks making?
I thought they were all just camping out, carrying signs and complaining about rich folks not paying enuff taxes- and seem to be angry about life in general - but I didn't realize they had actually made any demands.
I didn't realize that the Tea Party had made any demands, either, unless you consider expecting politicians to balance the budget to be a demand.
And I fear that many would want prosecution for "outrageous" salaries... which isn't against the law, at least not yet, thankfully.
They are carrying signs that say things like:
1. End Corporate Personhood
2. People over Profit
3. Healthcare not Warfare
4. Planet over Profit
Do those things sound so terrible? Some protesters may carry signs that do fully or correctly express the demands of the movement. Once again if you have not seen the actual demands released by the leaders of this movement
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowercountry
We were never - nor intended to be - a democracy. To the contrary, democracy as a reality was a grave concern of the founding fathers.
That is true, however, democracy is what we want now. The founding fathers also condoned slavery. We do not. Or at least I do not and neither does #OWS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821
What "demands" are these Occupy folks making?
I thought they were all just camping out, carrying signs and complaining about rich folks not paying enuff taxes- and seem to be angry about life in general - but I didn't realize they had actually made any demands.
I didn't realize that the Tea Party had made any demands, either, unless you consider expecting politicians to balance the budget to be a demand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack
I will ask you again and this time please don't get hysterical.
What do you want SPECIFICALLY to happen to the "greedy" people on wall street? Who are they? What are there legal crimes? What penalities should government force on the companies they work for??? Are you talking about General Electric? Are you talking about Bank of America?
I don't want generalities or 2% blah, blah, blah.......
Can you please give me a non-politician like answer w/some specifics so we can move the conversation along?
If you have not seen the list of demands released by the leaders of this movement, you should read them. You can find links here (http://ransackedmuse.wordpress.com/2011/10/09/american-autumn-at-occupychi-across-the-world/ - broken link).
Last edited by SunnyKayak; 10-09-2011 at 09:13 PM..
Bottomsup..for the sake of you credibility, stop trying so hard. You're making Felt and NS look like geniuses.
And could you provide proof of what you said in remarks to Tober's picture? You said you were pretty sure, I'd like to see some basis for that.
Well I guess one could just look at what is on some posters? Browse thru some images on CNN (and ignore the quacks).
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Steve Jobs WAS a member of the 1%. As much as many of us hailed Steve Jobs for what he did, he was VERY MUCH a member of the greedy capitalist world that the occupy movement is supposed to be against. Why is there no #occupycupertino? Because he provided a product that people enjoy so he gets the pass, even though the could dry himself off after a shower with rolls of thousands?
I'm just not sure people are protesting against greedy capitalists as much as just a general "things are messed up here". One example, China taxes our imports 20%+ plus we tax theirs 1.5%. That already puts China at an advantage to us. 1/3-ish of our entire trade deficit goes to China, to the tune of $250 billion a year. Our large companies make a ton of money making products in China and importing them here, at the expense of selling out the middle class, yet the government is bought and paid for with lobbyists in the businesses best interests. Which is why you haven't seen something as simple as that change. Only one presidential candidate is talking about it, and that is Romney.
People rail against unions but one thing they are able to do is give the common man a voice, the yang against the corporate yin. My union, and union dues, have over time done more for public safety than decades of federal government involvement have done.
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You guys are for capitalism so long as you're benefiting from it. As long as you're sitting in your house and getting your raises and being able to spoil your kids, it's okay. When times were great you guys weren't protesting jack. Now we all have to step back, think out of the box and come up with something new. But the best you can do is protest.
Sure everyone is for capitalism. Hell we are Americans. What I want, personally, is a fair and equitable chance at it. I don't feel we have that anymore. In fact, in China, you have a better chance at working your way up than you do here.
Protesting is pretty effective. At this stage not much else can be done. Yeah, you can write your Congressman but pretty much get ignored. This is a great way to draw public attention, and honestly with as much as these things have exploded many, many people feel the same way. Yes, you are right, there are other effective ways to effect change but this is a pretty vocal one and protests in general, if large enough, do have an effect.
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You don't take down companies by standing outside with signs spewing gag inducing rhetoric. Your masses should just stop buying into Apple products. Stop buying into GM cars. Stop buying clothes at Macy's and big overpriced department stores. Start affecting bottom lines as opposed to protesting against corporate greed and then use a product they supply when you're done. You can't have this one both ways and if you try, you distract and discredit occupy's legitimacy. All you're doing is sacrificing your time and nothing deeper.
I just don't see them wanting to take down corps. Of the signs I've seen it's mostly a cry out for some common sense issues.
I am sorry if I have misinterpreted anything you have written. Sincerely.
But I must say again - with 43% of folks on some sort of subsidy in this country - aren't we already beholden ("we" meaning - "We, the People of this country) to Uncle Sam and his minions (i.e. bureaucrats and politicians). And aren't the folks on subsistence (whether they are gaming the system, genuinely in need or not) relying on those who ARE working to keep us from living on the streets, literally?
Do you have a link showing 43% of the US population on government subsidies? I Googled and couldn't find anything. I wonder if they are including "subsidies" such as the mortgage deduction, which isn't really a subsidy and more of a tax break.
And if not, you have to wonder if 43% of people are living below the poverty line to warrant things like food stamps and section 8 housing, we are doing something wrong as a country.
That is true, however, democracy is what we want now. The founding fathers also condoned slavery. We do not. Or at least I do not and neither does #OWS.
Do you have a link showing 43% of the US population on government subsidies? I Googled and couldn't find anything. I wonder if they are including "subsidies" such as the mortgage deduction, which isn't really a subsidy and more of a tax break.
And if not, you have to wonder if 43% of people are living below the poverty line to warrant things like food stamps and section 8 housing, we are doing something wrong as a country.
When I find a link, I will post it. This was info I received in the last month from a healthcare professional organization.
My understanding is that the figure does include food stamps, section 8, Medicaid . . . and if I remember correctly, disability, Social Security and it may include UE checks, as well.
I am about 100% positive it does not include anything to do with allowable IRS deductions, such as mortgage interest.
This has been the topic of much discussion amongst my peers in my profession . . . it points out how dependent nearly half of the population has become on receiving some type of underwriting for their existence.
It is also troubling b/c many of the programs that would be included in that subsistence category are such things as Sec. 8 vouchers, a program that needs real examination. Did you know that there is no reduction made in a person's voucher if he/she receives the voucher in a high rent area (ex. NYC) and then relocates to a lower rent area (ex. Charlotte). Stuff like that is absurd - and sadly, so many programs are full of loopholes that end up costing taxpayers and defeat the original intent of the subsidy.
Yet, the working poor can't qualify for benefits they need! The "system" is screwed up but it is based on laws that Congress has passed since the 60s, so it is what it is b/c of legislation as much as fraud and abuse.
When one tries to discuss entitlements, folks get up in arms b/c many are accepting UE checks and have been for months, if not years. People who are receiving UE checks are doing so legally and shouldn't feel they have to justify it.
Regardless of the reasons why someone is receiving some type of assistance - it all adds up.
Whats your opinion on this grass root movement who is making the claims in quotes.
Saturday at 3pm Occupy Charlotte will converge at old City Hall then march to BOA at 4
"The banking giant Bank of America has a hard presence in our region, and their frauds and abuses have become a symbol of what is wrong with our economy and our financial system. We plan to pit our peaceful protest and civil disobedience against them."
"Fraudulent derivatives and sub-prime mortgage and predatory interest-rate student loans leave us indebted and homeless." Occupy Charlotte
No thanks. Nobody forced the people with Sub-prime credit to sign the loan docs. Don't like the interest rate on a student loan? Go to a cheaper school or trade school.
I couldn't agree with your view more. People weren't forced to take out mortgages/student loans
I will rephrase my question. Sunny were you in attendance to this march on 10/6? Do you know what the outcome was?
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