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Honestly, there was a time not that long ago when I would've barely reacted to Allen's post. I'm not from the southwest suburbs either. But ever since Borders in Matteson closed down, I've been a little angry and I've gotten more accustomed to Orland/Tinley/Oak Forest. You know, where the Barnes And Noble book store and cafe is located..
Honestly, there was a time not that long ago when I would've barely reacted to Allen's post. I'm not from the southwest suburbs either. But ever since Borders in Matteson closed down, I've been a little angry and I've gotten more accustomed to Orland/Tinley/Oak Forest. You know, where the Barnes And Noble book store and cafe is located..
I am in 100% agreement with you on your posts. The fact is that while some people from Flossmoor may want upscale BRAND NAME shopping to come to the area, they realize that the likelihood of that happening is not high. While they may not like the commute, they will go to Orland, Oak Brook, Woodfield, etc. to satisfy their shopping needs just as some people in NWI do because Southlake is not an upscale mall (although a few more upscale tenants have opened, it doesn't light a match to Orland). Why? Because they don't want to be confined to their area to shop due to "racial segregation". EVERYONE always make comments all the time about how "White" Orland is but still shop there. Allen should go on Twitter and Facebook and see all the comments from BLACK people about the Chipotle in Matteson and Lincoln Mall. They were not good comments at all.
People shop where they can afford. Retailers locate where the highest density of individuals in their target income reside and where the demographics are most likely going to stay the same.
People have the right to live wherever they want to. And choose where they like to hang out, feel the most comfortable, or whatever. Aside from lincoln mall. Which I never have any reason to shop at other than going to the stand alone carson's, jcpenney, and target. I have no problem shopping or eating out at all the other quality retailers and restaurants in matteson, homewood, or anywhere else close to my home. Admittedly, I am not a shopaholic. I feel like the concept of lincoln mall is just too outdated to be revived at this point. The property is reportedly being sold next month. Hopefully the new owner will continue the plan to redevelop it as a stand alone promenade concept. I personally think the far southern suburbs could use a few more quality entertainment establishments more than anything. More restaurant concepts, family entertainment along the lines of a dine-in movie theater, a classy club like what is opening on the second floor of bar louie, bowling alley, an arcade, etc. There are places to shop and we will have to see what the outlet mall in country club hills slated to break ground soon has to offer.
What I personally have a problem with and I feel there should be zero tolerance for these days is corporate racial redlining. Admittedly the retail redlining in the southern suburbs isn't as blatant as it once was before. There are actual coporate retailers and restaurants now. When there wasn't any major retailers at all in some areas like country club hills. Walmart wasn't even in the southern suburbs. Neither was target, home depot, etc. So there was definitely a problem there. And that problem still exist to a degree, but not as bad as before. Still pretty undeserved though in term of retailers.
Last edited by allen2323; 05-16-2012 at 07:40 PM..
People have the right to live wherever they want to. And choose where they like to hang out, feel the most comfortable, or whatever. Aside from lincoln mall. Which I never shop at other than going to the stand alone carson's, jcpenney, and target. I have no problem shopping or eating out at all the other quality retailers and restaurants in matteson. Admittedly, I am not a shopaholic. I feel like the concept of lincoln mall is just too outdated to be revived at this point. The property is reportedly being sold next month. Hopefully the new owner will continue the plan to redevolope it as a stand alone promenade concept. I personally think the far southern suburbs could use a few more quality entertainment establishments more than anything. There are places to shop and we will have to see what the outlet mall in country club hills slated to break ground soon offers.
What I personally have a problem with and I feel there should be zero tolerance for these days is corporate racial redlining. Admittedly the retail redlining in the southern suburbs isn't as blatant as it once was before. When there wasn't any major retailers at all in some areas like country club hills. Walmart wasn't even in the southern suburbs. Neither was target, home depot, etc. So there was definitely a problem there. And that problem still exist to a degree, but not as bad as before. Still pretty undeserved though in term of retailers.
You are absolutely right that people have the rights that you stated. However, let's say that shopping comparable to oak brook or even Orland comes to Matteson. Guess what? The Chicago area will become THAT much more segregated.
Now, I am not saying that the south suburbs don't deserve higher-end amenities. But it seems to me like what you want is to have a place for Blacks to shop at LIKE the non-Black places do so that we don't have to go there. But then guess what? Many Blacks are still going to go to Orland or Oak Brook to shop because quite frankly many Blacks are accustomed to shopping elsewhere. But most non-Blacks are accustomed to being able to fulfill their shopping needs in their own neighborhoods. Upper Class non-Blacks from Orland or Oak Brook probably would not travel to an upscale Matteson store whereas Upper Class Blacks from Flossmoor or Olympia Fields would probably shop in Matteson AND Orland AND Oak Brook.
The same thing that is happening at Chipotle could probably happen if other upscale tenants come to Matteson.
You feel more comfortable being able to shop in the south suburbs and that is fine. But in reality, it will create more segregation
You are absolutely right that people have the rights that you stated. However, let's say that shopping comparable to oak brook or even Orland comes to Matteson. Guess what? The Chicago area will become THAT much more segregated.
Now, I am not saying that the south suburbs don't deserve higher-end amenities. But it seems to me like what you want is to have a place for Blacks to shop at LIKE the non-Black places do so that we don't have to go there. But then guess what? Many Blacks are still going to go to Orland or Oak Brook to shop because quite frankly many Blacks are accustomed to shopping elsewhere. But most non-Blacks are accustomed to being able to fulfill their shopping needs in their own neighborhoods. Upper Class non-Blacks from Orland or Oak Brook probably would not travel to an upscale Matteson store whereas Upper Class Blacks from Flossmoor or Olympia Fields would probably shop in Matteson AND Orland AND Oak Brook.
The same thing that is happening at Chipotle could probably happen if other upscale tenants come to Matteson.
You feel more comfortable being able to shop in the south suburbs and that is fine. But in reality, it will create more segregation
For one, I am not saying that matteson should be the shopping center of the universe. And I have no idea why you would infer that from what I said. Orland park and oak brook are not going out of business now that matteson, homewood, and country club hills has the small offering of long overdue corporate retailers and restaurants that should have been there decades ago. If it were not for racial redlining. Although it will be interesting to see how the outlet mall slated to be built soon in country club hills improves the shopping options. Which leads to my counterpoint. Corporations depriving areas of retail and restaurants based on the racial makeup of the area only reinforces segregation. And rewards those who partake in segregation and encourages more people to engage in racial segregation. I eat lunch at the panera bread in matteson all the time. I can't help to notice the racial makeup of the patrons is not racially segregated like many would assume and there is probably about a 60/40 split between black and white patrons. The same with the new five guys burgers, starbuck's coffee, jcpenneys, petsmart, olive garden, etc.
And what could possibly be wrong with the chipolte in matteson. It's a glorified taco stand for crying out loud. How could they possibly mess that up. The only complaint I have is the location is a bit cramped and the line is often too long. But that can avoided by placing you order online. Which goes back to my original question. Which was, why is it that so many people see something nice that happens to cater to a mostly black demographic, they immediately get all defensive about it and attempt to belittle whatever it is?
Last edited by allen2323; 05-16-2012 at 08:39 PM..
For one, I am not saying that matteson should be the shopping center of the universe. And I have no idea why you would infer that from what I said. Orland park and oak brook are not going out of business now that matteson, homewood, and country club hills has the small offering of long overdue corporate retail and restaurants that should have been there decades ago. If it were not for racial redlining. Although it will be interesting to see how the outlet mall slated to be built soon in country club hills improves the shopping options. Which goes to my counterpoint. Corporations depriving areas of retail and restaurants based on racial makeup of the area only reinforces segregation. That only broadens the gap and creates more segregation. I eat lunch at the panera bread in matteson all the time. I can't help to notice the racial makeup of the patrons is not racially segregated like many would assume and there is probably about a 60/40 split between black and white patrons. The same with the new five guys burgers, starbuck's coffee, jcpenneys, petsmart, olive garden, etc.
And what could possibly be wrong with the chipolte in matteson. It's a glorified taco stand for crying out loud. How could they possibly mess that up. The only complaint I have is the location is a bit cramped and the line is often too long. But that can avoided by placing you order online. Which goes back to my original question. Which was, why is it that so many people see something nice that happens to cater to a mostly black demographic, they immediately get all defensive about it and attempt to belittle whatever it is?
I think the answer to your question is because many former residents left after their communities started to change racially and they may be jealous that the communities they left are now getting their "fair share". Or maybe they just denounce anything good that happens in a Black area. Just as you complain when something good happens in a White area (because it "could have" but "didn't" happen to a Black area)
However, IF (notice the "if") you are inferring that I belittle Black areas when they improve, then you are wrong. I applaud it! It then means that the people of that area have less to complain about.
People who are mistreated, receive bad service or bad food, complain on forums when they should complain to corporate headquarters. Those complaints do not fall on deaf ears.
Corporates do not redline. Bank won't lend in sketchy areas. If Company X can't get financing to build in Town A, they will move to Town B where they can get financing. It is rarely racially motivated especially if there is a high expendable income in those areas. Very often national companies will come in to an unfamiliar area and use if for a test market. If it is a success in Town A, they might be compelled to build in Town AA a few miles away.
Some national companies will only build in Town Z IF there is x number of business owners living and shopping in that same area. They also look at MSA, too.
I think the answer to your question is because many former residents left after their communities started to change racially and they may be jealous that the communities they left are now getting their "fair share". Or maybe they just denounce anything good that happens in a Black area. Just as you complain when something good happens in a White area (because it "could have" but "didn't" happen to a Black area)
However, IF (notice the "if") you are inferring that I belittle Black areas when they improve, then you are wrong. I applaud it! It then means that the people of that area have less to complain about.
I was not inferring that specifically to you. But I did notice your comment about the chipotle and was wondering exactly what you meant by it? And I am in no way a hater of other races of people. If you could see my family believe me you would totally think otherwise.
It's official, Sears is leaving. I'm sure Lincoln Mall will shut down by the beginning of next year, if not sooner. On the plus side, some of the smaller retail spaces in Matteson strip malls might fill up with stores from the mall. Hopefully it will be demolished quickly instead of leaving the building there to crumble for years. I can't imagine what might replace it though. There is hardly any demand for new retail space, not just in Matteson, but almost anywhere. Perhaps a Wal Mart Supercenter, that's what took the place of the old Lakehurst Mall in Waukegan. I know they had plans several years ago for a supercenter on the empty property immediately south of Lincoln Mall, but that seems to have fallen through. Perhaps they'll find the old mall site more enticing. Of course that does leave the problem of having another vacant box to fill up.
It's official, Sears is leaving. I'm sure Lincoln Mall will shut down by the beginning of next year, if not sooner. On the plus side, some of the smaller retail spaces in Matteson strip malls might fill up with stores from the mall. Hopefully it will be demolished quickly instead of leaving the building there to crumble for years. I can't imagine what might replace it though. There is hardly any demand for new retail space, not just in Matteson, but almost anywhere. Perhaps a Wal Mart Supercenter, that's what took the place of the old Lakehurst Mall in Waukegan. I know they had plans several years ago for a supercenter on the empty property immediately south of Lincoln Mall, but that seems to have fallen through. Perhaps they'll find the old mall site more enticing. Of course that does leave the problem of having another vacant box to fill up.
This may be what is needed to get the ball rolling again. A new owner, as the report states there is expected to be multiple bidders with 44.7 million dollars currently owed on the property. The current owner bought the mall in like 2004 then quickly took out ten's of millions of dollars in loans on the property to redevelop the property. Including 13 million dollars from the village of matteson. Bulldozed half the mall. Built a promenade road around the perimeter where jcpenney and target moved to. Filed bankruptcy less than five years after purchasing the mall and did not complete the redevelopment plans that it was given funds to complete.
Lincoln mall has sat as a half bulldozed eyesore ever since. Hopefully whoever purchases the property will continue to redevelop the property along the promenade road that has already been started with jcpenney and target with other stand alone department stores. Maybe to include existing mall tenants such as carson's and sears. Lincoln mall is just too far gone and outdated to be revived as an indoor shopping mall. Also that would be prime space for much needed entertainment establishments and restaurants in the area. I believe a movie theater concept was in the original plans for the promenade concept. Along with restaurants. Washington Square mall in homewood along halsted went to ashes decades ago and was redeveloped.
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