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1) The reign of Jesus Christ is not temporary as some claim, but is forever and ever through the eternal future.
2) The Greek word Aionios and its variations - aionas, aiona, aionos, etc... are properly used with reference to things which are eternal in nature. Aionios has the meaning of an indefinite period. Either indefinite because eternal, or indefinite but not eternal. It depends upon the context.
Because of 1 Corinthians 15:24 which says, ''Then comes the end, when He delivers up the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25] For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.'', there are those who think that Jesus Christ will not rule forever.
The Bible is clear that He will rule forever along with God the Father. Compare the following passages.
Luke 1:33 'And He (Jesus) will reign over the house of Jacob forever (aionas); and His Kingdom will have no end. This passage approaches the fact that Jesus will reign forever from two different perspectives. First, it states that Jesus will reign forever, and then it strengthens that statement by declaring that there will be no end to His reign. It can't be made any more plain than that. Jesus' reign will have no end and is therefore eternal - aionas.
In Isaiah 9:6-7 both the Lord's birth and His eternal reign are prohesied by Isaiah. ''For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Couselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. 7] There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore (olam). The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this (LORD of the armies - a title which belongs to Jesus Christ).
Hebrews 1:8 ''But of the Son He says, ''Thy throne O God, is forever and ever - eis ton aiona tou aionos - to the ages of the ages. The most emphatic way in the Greek of expressing the concept of eternity. The Greek phrase is properly brought over into the Engish with the idiomatic expression forever and ever. This does not imply adding one eternity to another eternity as some would maintain. It simply emphasizes the concept of the eternal duration of Christs reign.
It is seen in the next two verses that both God the Father and God the Son - Jesus Christ, rule together forever.
The eternal throne is that of God and of the Lamb. Revelation 22:1 'And He showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God (the Father) and of the Lamb (Jesus Christ).
Revelation 22:3 'And there shall no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His bond-servents shall serve Him:
As the Scriptures plainly state, Jesus Christ will rule forever along with God the Father. When the Millennium ends, Jesus Christ will deliver up the kingdom to God the Father and it will be the triune God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit who rules.
Now, for those who have insisted that Jesus only rules until the end of the Millennium, if you will be honest with yourself, you will see that Jesus rules for all eternity future and you will also see that the Greek word Aionios with its variations properly denotes those things which are of an eternal nature.
Yes, this concept is true, the idea that aionios ONLY means an age or ONLY means something eternal or never ending is false. It does carry the definitions for both concepts. This for me, when I undersatood this opened up many new things in scripture that can be learned from.
Do you understand the concept that the meaning of a word is determined by its useage? I just showed that Jesus' reign is eternal and that aionos and other variations of the word denote that eternal reign. And you still refuse to acknowledge it. I just said that aionios means both an indefinite period either because eternal or an indefinite period but not eternal.
Here. Maybe you will take Plato's word for it. Never mind his philosophy. The issue is that to Plato, aionion and aidios were synonymous terms. Plato used aionios to refer to eternity. Do you not think that Plato knew the proper meaning of the word?
haven't been in the forum for a while
concerning your first claim, this position suppports UR more than it refutes it, see also here:
1 Cor 15:24 which is timed with Rev 20:13 - consummated at the end of the millennium
Rev 22:5 - Ongoing in the age to come, which is post millennium.
The kingdom Christ hands to the Father is NOT the age to come, the New Heavens and Earth.
That age is never ending, and is the age to come, and Christ rules with the saints forever.
Mike, Christ can't reign "for ever and ever" but He does reign for the ages of the ages which are the next two ages to come. When all mankind are subjected to Christ and Christ quits reigning (1 Corinthians 15:25) and God is All in all, there is no longer need for Christ to reign.
Reigning lasts as long as there is insubjection in God's universe. When reigning by Christ is ceased this is a fantastic sign that all insubjection in God's universe is over.
If you want Christ to reign eternally then you obviously want there to be an eternal insubjection. You never want Christ to succeed in subjecting the universe. You want Christ and God to eternally not succeed in their goal.
As has been shown, Christ does reign forever. As was promised to David. Jesus Christ is God. And it is the triune God who rules forever. When Jesus delivers up the Millennial kingdom to the Father He continues to co-reign.
I am no scholar and not very familiar with Plato and the Greek language, but to me his ideas seem quite ambiguous and vague
I would appreciate your comment on my understanding of Plato
The fact that Jesus Christ will reign forever does not support universalism. It simply means He reigns forever in fulfillment of God's promise to David that He would have a descendant who would sit on the throne forever. Jesus Christ is God and it is the triune God who will rule forever.
I don't really know much about Plato myself. I simply used him to show that he did use the word aionios for eternity. The link I provided contains one of his writings.
1 Cor 15:24 which is timed with Rev 20:13 - consummated at the end of the millennium
Rev 22:5 - Ongoing in the age to come, which is post millennium.
The kingdom Christ hands to the Father is NOT the age to come, the New Heavens and Earth.
That age is never ending, and is the age to come, and Christ rules with the saints forever.
Christ rules forever
Yes, the saints rule with Christ forever. I was originally going to include that in the first post, but decided to leave it out.
How can people reject the deity of Christ and His eternal reign and yet claim to know Him? That's just.....sad!!!
I'm out and about over the next few days, and I'm typing on my phone, so I can't deliver a very scholarly answer, but the word which meant "eternal" back in the day (a long time ago-->>Hi, Plato) was "aidios," and it was NEVER associated in the original scriptures with human punishment. Never. Mike, or any pastor worth his salt, should know this.
Aionios always meant temporary. God is the ainios God, or the God of the ages, but he also is immortal. We are not. We have to PUT ON immortality.
1 Timothy 1:17Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
It uses aidios, and the same word is used in Matthew to describe that blasphemy against the holy spirit will never be forgiven. However in Mark, the same thing is said using the word aiōnios, so they obviously mean the same thing: ETERNAL. There is a word to describe temporary time and it is 'kronos'.
See Luke 1:57 Birth of John the Baptist When it was time for Elizabeth to have her baby, she gave birth to a son
1 Timothy 1:17Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
It uses aidios, and the same word is used in Matthew to describe that blasphemy against the holy spirit will never be forgiven. However in Mark, the same thing is said using the word aiōnios, so they obviously mean the same thing: ETERNAL. There is a word to describe temporary time and it is 'kronos'.
See Luke 1:57 Birth of John the Baptist When it was time for Elizabeth to have her baby, she gave birth to a son
Originally Posted by Eusebius Mike, Christ can't reign "for ever and ever" but He does reign for the ages of the ages which are the next two ages to come. When all mankind are subjected to Christ and Christ quits reigning (1 Corinthians 15:25) and God is All in all, there is no longer need for Christ to reign.
Reigning lasts as long as there is insubjection in God's universe. When reigning by Christ is ceased this is a fantastic sign that all insubjection in God's universe is over.
If you want Christ to reign eternally then you obviously want there to be an eternal insubjection. You never want Christ to succeed in subjecting the universe. You want Christ and God to eternally not succeed in their goal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
As has been shown, Christ does reign forever. As was promised to David. Jesus Christ is God. And it is the triune God who rules forever. When Jesus delivers up the Millennial kingdom to the Father He continues to co-reign.
Mike, I thought you said you were a believer.
I thought I just showed you that Christ only reigns until.
If I said I will work until I'm 65 and you told my friends I'll be working the rest of my life, you'd in fact be calling me a liar.
Now Jesus said He is going to reign until. Until when? Until what?
1Co 15:25-26 For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet. (26) The last enemy is being abolished: death.
Now then either you believe death will one day be abolished or you believe Jesus will fail to abolish death. Which is it? Do you believe He will succeed or fail?
If you believe He will succeed then you must also believe He will reign only until He succeeds at ending death.
If you believe He will eternally reign then you must believe He will never succeed at abolishing death.
Obviously the "forever" in "reigning forever" can't mean eternally because He won't reign eternally.
Which is it Mike?
Are you a believer?
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