Act 20:7 did NOT change the Sabbath day. (hell, Deuteronomy, believers)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I AM NOT A SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST, NOR ANY DENOMINATION, JUST THE WORD, KING JAMES pick up good non-adventist commentaries they will tell you it has not changed either, people just don't want to keep it.
We are not under the law for we are not saved by it, the law is quoted all through the NT, and Paul said over and over, we are to not be hears of the law but doers of the law, the law is the first five books quoted all through the NT. What did Jesus say so clearly in Matt 5:17-20
Teach to break the least commands in the law you will be the least in the kingdom in heaven, teach them and you will be greatest.
This is NT doctrine, Jesus quotes the law 3 times in Deut to fight the devil to train us to use it. It is not void, it is established, but changed, read Heb 7:12
The Sabbath Day is taught 61 times in the NT, you do not know your Bible those that say it is not taught there, it is taught more that all the other ten commandments, to say it is not taught in the NT is false. It is taught 3 times more than the next other one murder about 20 times.
Paul went in on the Sabbath Day all through acts and never took issue with the fourth commandment being kept. Their is no teaching of any change of the fourth commandment any where in the NT only proper keeping of it. And hebrews makes clear it is the seveth day or Saturday, heaven is like the Sabbath is what Paul is saying in Hebrews.
From mount olivet to Jerusalem a Sabbath Days journey acts Ch1, why tell us the distance to be kept after Jesus was gone to heaven if it was not to be kept, He went to heaven on the Sabbath Day that is why He told them that He took them to Bethany, very end of Luke, on the mount of Olives, He did not take them further for it was the Sabbath. Do the calculations from 40 days(the time on earth after the cross). On Sunday resurection we start the 40 days(5 sets of 7 days = 35 that takes you back to Sunday, then add 5 days to Sunday, what day do you get, Friday) He rose on the Sabbath and took them the safe distance. I am not sure Adventists know this, for I know some but have never been part of one of their churches, I never learned any of this but by God's Spirit,
I knew when I first read the Bible it was to be kept, as I knew so many things that are lost and not kept, I just couldn't find any one who understood it. For chruches are not after keeping all of God's commands, Once you make up your mind to obey all of them, you can not survive in any church of today. The adventists will quote some truth about it, but they are a false church. So are the others of one degree or another, I have have served in many churches teaching and ministering, but it can not be done easily unless you just don't say anything and conform, which God does not allow me to do much of.
I just want to reiterate that not all Sabbath-keeping Christians are SDA. I was born and raised in the Apostolic Pentecostal church, and at some point in my 20s, I realized that my church - and most other 1st day churches - taught 9 of the 10 commandments as truth, and blatantly ignored the other. On occasion, you'd find one leader who could explain why we ignored the 4th commandment (with some of the same arguments many of you are making in this thread)... but for the most part, they ignored #4 simply because their parents did, and parents' parents did, and tradition caused them to attend church on the 1st day and that's really all they knew, and since that's what the majority does, why question it?
In any case, I observe God's holy Sabbath and have for several years now. I am not a member of an SDA church.
That said, that's about as far as I can go to agree with Tony. His approach is ineffective, rude, and lacks gentleness, meekness, temperance, goodness... or lovingkindness.
Sorry you feel that way, but I am in a war, and sometimes my dear, wars are not pretty and dressed up. This is a spiritual war, and the costs are high. so, when people come in, not to learn, or to teach, but regurgitate what they have been taught their WHOLE lives, like you said, then really they are not seeking Truth, but have fallen for a lie and called it truth.
I am passionate about my faith, and I am sorry if this offends, not just you, but everyone who reads this. Shoot, the only reason I even post here is because i love you all enough to share and to learn. What I learn, Jesus commands us to share, because, after all, it is His Bread. But should it have any leaven in it? Doesn't the whole lump then change? So, again, I am sorry.
John the baptist, Jesus and Paul all offended people telling them the truth, it is not welcome, we try very hard to be peaceful as all three of these men and One being God, did, but telling people they are snakes and their father is the devil, given they were the church people offended them enough that all three of these men were hunted and killed by their own people at one time or another. If people are going to talk non sense about God then, you rebuke once or twice then let them go, you can reason with them, but we want so bad that people would not go the wrong way with Him. Prayer and fasting for them, we take wrong for being right, that is the order of daily life from the world we do not align with and can not go with
but, anger has its place, holy anger when people will not accept the truth, we are allowed to get angry God says, but not to sin, if the wide spread disregard of God and His Word today does not get you angry each day then it is probably because you don't know it and can't see around how bad things in Gods eyes they are, He isn't killing hundreds of thousands in a day because He is happy about what is going on in every city. What goes on in one place is supposed to drop the whole world to its knees and say He is Hot, how many of you could kill a quarter million people in a day and leave a million homless and just walk around as if we are to be smiling and joyful singing as if all is ok, its not
He was not talking about the 316 levitical commandments. He is talking about HIS Commandments, the 10 based upon LOVE.
So, if you do not murder another, because you love your brother, and
you do not steal, because you love your brother, and
you do not dishonor your parents, because you love them, and
you have but 1 GOD, because you love Him,
WHY would you break a commandment He has set His OWN personal authoritive seal upon? Willingly?
It doesnt compute, at ALL.
I understand law and grace. The law cannot save. Only grace through the blood of our Savior can save. So, by claiming the grace for ourselves, and the redemptive process of His personal sacrifice, why then would ANYONE trample the law? Did grace nullify the law? What did Jesus personally say on this matter?
Without rules to live by, then there is darkness. Chaos reigns supreme, because God's commandments are broken, even by those professing to know Him, yet are workers of iniquity. We also knows what He says about those people, don't we??
It is but 1 commandment. You already probably obey all the others, yet are stiffnecked and stubborn on this one because your false teachers have led you in a ditch that you cannot see out of. Read it! It is there. The blind leading the blind.
Tony
You say "I understand law and grace. The law cannot save." ........yet post after post is nothing but the opposite.
It's either
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith".."This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,"
or
if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless,
Either
Jesus fulfilled all the law
or
Jesus fulfilled almost all except the Sabbath..and you got to do your part.
There is no such thing as being partly pregnant. Those who attempt to obey the law as part of the condition of salvation are "alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."
Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
Now your a 'funny man'? I am not SDA. I am not anything, but an Israelite serving but 1 King.
I am unhappy you are amused by the Word of God. It isn't funny. Your soul could be at stake.
No one said keeping the Commandments are what saves you. Keeping the Commandments proves your absolute love for God and man. Now, without love, you will not make it into heaven. Sorry, but it's the Truth. Jesus said it, and I believe it. If you don't, sorry. I do.
1. You are not an Israelite. Do you live in Israel?
2. You have no sense of humor
3. Keeping the commandments does not save. Your arguement says that you believe keeping commandments is what saves. I really have an issue with people who judge my standing with God on an internet forum. What part of keeping the commandments is covered by Ephesians 2:8-9?
I know what you are arguing, how are you going to get around we are not to be hearers of the law but doers to be justified, if you love me keep my commandments, which ones twin? given James is quoting the ten as all the other writers in the Bible are. read Matt 5:17-20, if you teach against the law Jesus said, Did not Jesus quote it all the time, for what? not to keep any of it, we have the moral law we keep, we do not keep the whole thing and we are not saved by it. Neither murderers, people in idolatry, no fornicators, adulterers will inherit the kingdom of God, these are the ten commandments,
The problem was the Jews did not have faith, they tried to obey the law without faith, we don't live in any sin any longer, what sin, the law shows us our sinfulness, it doesnt save us, we are saved with out its works, but true faith will keep Gods commands, sell what you have and give it to the poor, thats a command, women are to always have their head veiled when they pray, a command these are new testament. Christians we have rules and we keep them, those who know the Bible, we are after knowing what He wants us to do. Read Hebrews 7:12 paul clearly stated the law has changed, one might think we don't have to keep it with some verses, but then God says bam do we live in sin any longer, bam He hits you, not to be fooled into the rules being gone of the old, some are, but not all, some are changed, We are free from the law as the Jews had it thinking it saved them, we are free from keeping many things, but we don't go around breaking the moral commands, James quoted the ten commandments when he said break on break all,
The rich young ruler how must I inherit eternal life, Jesus said keep the commandments their, which ones
Named five but not coveteousness
This one thing you lack, meant it too, sell what you have give it to the poor take up your cross and follow me,
Didn't want to give up the only thing in his way, his money
If he want His faith in God, he would have sold everything and followed Him, the gospel is preached in many a different way to each person in the Bible that is why we have to preach the whole thing, Got to keep the commandments or you do not love Him, He says over and over, faith does not make the law void, it establishes it,
heaven and earth will not pass till all in the law will be fullfilled Jesus said, heaven and earth pass, but not the law and His commands
People want sin and salvation that is how these kind of things are not understood
You say "I understand law and grace. The law cannot save." ........yet post after post is nothing but the opposite.
It's either
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith".."This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,"
or
if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless,
Either
Jesus fulfilled all the law
or
Jesus fulfilled almost all except the Sabbath..and you got to do your part.
There is no such thing as being partly pregnant. Those who attempt to obey the law as part of the condition of salvation are "alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."
Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
What are you saved for? To disregard the law?
Did Jesus pay the penalty for your transgressing of the law that you may continue to transgress it?
Did God graciously give to you the Holy Spirit to sanctify you and change you into the image of Christ Who was the ultimate law-keeper, or does the Holy Spirit teach you that the law is no longer relevant?
Did Jesus fulfill the law in order for the law to be abrogated, or did He fulfil the law to demonstrate that through the power and grace of a merciful and loving Father we all can now obey the law?
When John said that we must walk as Jesus walked, John did not mean that Jesus walked as a lawless disobedient Sabbath breaking sinful rebellious reprobate, and we copy that. No no no. Jesus was sinless, perfect in all His dealings with God and man, loving unconditionally thus was without condemnation all His life. This is how we are to walk. And he who is game to declare that this is impossible denies the power of God.
That amuses me when non Sabbatarians use Acts 15 as their defense for not keeping Sabbath. According to the literalist reading Gentiles are only required to quote:" abstain from pollutions of idols,from fornication, from things strangled, and from blood."
So the reasoning is that because Sabbath isn't mentioned, then Sabbath must have been cancelled. But what of the 6th commandment? Can Gentiles kill? Steal? Commit adultery? Can they use the Lord's name in vain?
Of course not. What the apostles are advising here is that Gentiles ought to keep these rules and live thereby, rules outside the obvious moral laws of the Ten.
I also wonder, how many Christians who love to quote this passage eat rare steak?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I AM NOT A SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST, NOR ANY DENOMINATION, JUST THE WORD, KING JAMES pick up good non-adventist commentaries they will tell you it has not changed either, people just don't want to keep it.
