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Gods way of communicating pc is different you start climbing mount grace in Romans the way it is sounding we are not under law but grace, you think ok we don't got to keep it, then you read the next verse and the whole chapter and realize they are only quoting part of one verse not even the whole verse, this is how the devil is, fast food God, When you get to reading many whole books every day, life with God changes and when you set to obey everything every verse know and obey in Love it is fun being good, I love Him please read Roman chapter Ch6 i have posted see as you start and then you get to not under law but grace, but when you have the whole chapter and those around and the whole book, then all of paul writing then all the NT then all the OT too the whole thing and you are set on giving all to God and Loving Him with all these things are easy to see, He talks different, like don't jugde and then He teaches you how to judge correctly, He is brilliant, it is so fun
You are hot stuff Lord
Romans 6
1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Thanks Verna, bless you and others in this thread.
It's really interesting, because, if as some say that the Ten Commandments were done away with at the cross, it is ok for me to kill, steal, dishonor my parents etc. I just try to teach others as I would be treated, not really giving much though to it, but does that mean it would be ok for me to do those things, I don't think God would nail these commandments to the cross.
Again folks, not trying to start anything or make anyone mad just asking honest questions. I am by far not a perfect person (but who is) and intend to start going to church again, just trying to do things right, and I know that works alone won't get anyone in heaven whether they go to church on the Sabbath, Sunday, Wednesday etc. but doing some inward thinking and using God's inspired word and not man as my guide.
This is my last post in this thread, enjoyed reading the comments.
Thank you for coming on my friend...and sharing your precious thoughts.
Ac 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.....
Read this carefully. The Gentiles asked Paul to further explain to them the gospel. They loved the new teaching, they dearly wanted to know all there was to know of this Saviour, Jesus Christ. When was it that they desired to hear again from Paul? The next Sabbath!!! Now be honest folks. Please. If Sunday was then in vogue as so many claim, why oh why did Paul not say so? Here was the perfect opportunity to explain the change from Sabbath to Sunday. Just one short statement such as "Meet us tomorrow, Sunday is now the Lord's day" would have sufficed. But no. What happened?
Because Paul was Jew and as a Jew was in the practice of observing the Sabbath as the day of worship. However, the early church (Christians/mostly gentiles) started meeting on the 1st day in celebration of Jesus' ressurection.
Acts 17:2 As was Paul’s custom, he went to the synagogue service, and for three Sabbaths in a row he used the Scriptures to reason with the people.
Paul also instructed the church at Corinth (which was obviously meeting on the 1st day of every week).
1 Corinthians 16:1-2
Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.
Oh uh, I guess Paul didn't get the word!
And when Paul met with believers in Troas to worship and celebrate communion, they gathered on the first day of the week:
Quote:
.....44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
And later in his ministry, the writer of Acts said of Paul:
17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
4 And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.
Jesus declared Himself to be the "LOrd of the Sabbath" - I guess He has the power and authority to change the Sabbath to whatever day of the week He chooses. Most Christians choose Sunday in celebration of His resurrection, how we acknowledge that He is Lord and Savior.
How do you celebrate Jesus' Resurrection? Do you celebrate it on Saturday?
Quote:
Note that in the synagogues were Jews and Greeks (Gentiles). [b]Three Sabbath days in a row, and not one suggestion or hint or intimation of any meeting on a Sunday. Then a little later...
18:1 ¶ After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth;
2 And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome and came unto them.
3 And because he was of the same craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by their occupation they were tentmakers.
4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
Note carefully...[b]every Sabbath...both Jews and Greeks!!!
The Jews that didn't believe in Jesus continued to meet on Saturday. One of the reasons for the New Church to start meeting on Sunday - to break away from the strict and ritualistic methods of the Jews, that didn't accept Jesus as the Lord, the Son of God.
Quote:
You can be fully assured that Paul was not repairing or making tents on the Sabbath. What was he doing? Resting and preaching the word according to the commandment. To both gentiles, and Jews, in fact to anyone who would listen, and not just in the synagogues, but also by the riverside.
Like I mentioned. Paul was a Jew and he was accustomed to following the practice of the Jews. But the Bible is rife with scripture indicating that Paul was aware that Christians were meeting on Sunday and nowhere in the Bible are they rebuked for it.
Quote:
And throughout the course of his life, Paul was constantly attacked, vilified, persecuted, beaten, and imprisoned because of his faith. The Jews were relentless in their pursuit of him and in their hatred and determination to see him killed. And throughout this great battle of minds and the accompanying spiritual warfare the controversy centred around the new faith and its new beliefs.
And the main difference? Circumcision. Nothing else. Read Acts 24 when Paul stood before his accusers and Felix. Paul answered:
Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.
Since the Exodus, the Sabbath has been the central institution of the Jewish nation. That was why the other days were named 1st day, 2nd day, 3rd day, 4th day etc, 1st day after the Sabbath.... Yet throughout Paul's illustrious career, not one hint or suggestion of accusation from any Jew at any time anywhere that Paul even once, failed to keep the Sabbath day holy. And likewise, only once, just once, was there an actual meeting on the first day Sunday, and that was actually Saturday evening after dark, continuing to midnight. Very likely a continuation from a normal Sabbath meeting. And the purpose of the extended meeting on that Saturday night? It was to farewell Paul who was travelling the next day (Sunday morning!!!! note...not going to church!!!) to another city.
The evidence for the establishment of Sunday as a replacement for Sabbath within a Biblical context is flimsy at best, circumstantial only, and is an extremely shaky foundation upon which to build such an important doctrine.
I know a certain denomination that proclaims that Saturday is supposed to be the day of worship wants very strongly to believe they are right and the rest of us are wrong. However, the NT, where the disciples are all aware that people were meeting on Sunday, nowhere are they being told it was wrong. I believe God is very pleased with people who sincerely set aside one day in His honor to worship Him and put all other things aside. If it is Saturday for you, that is great, my church happens to meet on Sunday, (although we do have a Saturday night service for those that are unable to attend on Sunday) and I see no conflict in the Bible with it. What God dislikes most (as Jesus claimed about the Pharisees) was when people start feeling arrogant about how they are better because they do "thus and so"!
"One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God," (Rom. 14:5-6).
Ac 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.....
Read this carefully. The Gentiles asked Paul to further explain to them the gospel. They loved the new teaching, they dearly wanted to know all there was to know of this Saviour, Jesus Christ. When was it that they desired to hear again from Paul? The next Sabbath!!! Now be honest folks. Please. If Sunday was then in vogue as so many claim, why oh why did Paul not say so? Here was the perfect opportunity to explain the change from Sabbath to Sunday. Just one short statement such as "Meet us tomorrow, Sunday is now the Lord's day" would have sufficed. But no. What happened?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rejoicer
Because Paul was Jew and as a Jew was in the practice of observing the Sabbath as the day of worship. However, the early church (Christians/mostly gentiles) started meeting on the 1st day in celebration of Jesus' ressurection.
Acts 17:2 As was Paul’s custom, he went to the synagogue service, and for three Sabbaths in a row he used the Scriptures to reason with the people.
Paul also instructed the church at Corinth (which was obviously meeting on the 1st day of every week).
1 Corinthians 16:1-2
Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.
Oh uh, I guess Paul didn't get the word!
And when Paul met with believers in Troas to worship and celebrate communion, they gathered on the first day of the week:
Oh uh, I guess Rejoicer doesn't understand. So please, I would like to help you in your understanding, then, if you seek earnestly for His truth, with all of your heart thereafterwards, God will reveal His truth to you too...I pray for that.
Paul simply wanted to have everything ready when he came, and gave directions that there be no gatherings when he was with them. He didn't want there to be any interruptions durring his time with them, of gathering money on the Sabbath Day...the seventh day...Saturday. Thus he ordered them "to keep in store" their contributions beforehand, to be given to the hurting saints of that day.
In 1 Corinthians 16:1, it states: "Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye." Here Paul is giving directions about some charitable collection to be made in this church, for the afflicted and impoverished churches [saints] in Judea. Compare to Romans 15:25-26: "But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem."...as Paul gave similar orders to other another church he visited as well, the Galatians.
In 1 Corinthians 16:2, it states: "Upon the first day of the week [Sunday] let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come."
The first day of the week, called "The Lord's Day", was kept sacred by Christians as the day of the Lord's resurrection, John 20:19: "Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you." They came together to break bread and praise and worship together, Acts 20:7:"And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread," Revelation 1:10: "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,".
Three annual feasts, all typical of Christian truths, were directed to be kept on the first day of the week: the feast of the wave offering of the first sheaf, answering to the Lord's resurrection; Pentecost, or the feast of weeks, typical of the fruits of the resurrection in the Christian Church; the feast of tabernacles at harvest, typical of the ingathering of the full number of the elect from one end of heaven to the other.
Only through the traditions of man did the Jewish Sabbath on the seventh day change from Saturday to Sunday. Constintine changed it approximately 300 years after the resurrection of Jesus Christ, not God. God has NEVER changed the Holy Sabbath of Rest from Saturday to Sunday...and with the correct study of God's word you will find this to be so. You cannot prove, through Scripture otherwise, if understood in Spirit and in Truth. He said to REMEMBER the Sabbath...why? because it was established from the beginning of creation...the Sabbath was always...and IS forever and ever a perpeual covenant between God and His beloved own...a holy seal...upon those who keep it.
There is nothing wrong with gathering on a Sunday to fellowship one with another...the Sabbath isn't to replace any day that Christians would like to gather together in praise and worship and study of God's word. The important thing to remember is this though, Sabbath Keepers are scorned and called liars and heathens and blasphemers by the world who do not keep this holy day, as witnessed right here on this board...and it quite difficult to gather with un-likeminded people and still be able to peacefully observe your God on His Holy Day as well...it brings to light the sin that the world is in..and they do not take to that very well...as can be testified by the intense hatred of of the world toward the saints of God who keep His Day holy. So once you have been given the knowledge of the truth, to keep the Sabbath holy...the seventh day Sabbath, you will find it a wonderful blessing to find those who are like-minded to gather on any day to worship God through song and prayer and study and breaking bread with one another...without forsaking or turning your foot away from keeping God's holy Day, Saturday unto Him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brakelite
.....44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
And later in his ministry, the writer of Acts said of Paul:
17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, 3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ. 4 And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rejoicer
Jesus declared Himself to be the "LOrd of the Sabbath" - I guess He has the power and authority to change the Sabbath to whatever day of the week He chooses. Most Christians choose Sunday in celebration of His resurrection, how we acknowledge that He is Lord and Savior.
See my response above in answer to this statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rejoicer
How do you celebrate Jesus' Resurrection? Do you celebrate it on Saturday?
I celebrate Jesus' resurrection every day by the way I live my life...in accordance with God's will for my life...to be an overcomer of my sinful nature by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit of Christ that is within me. I do not grieve the Holy Spirit by wrong doings...I worship Him in Spirit and in truth...I have died to sin and I live IN Christ...and I honor God on the seventh day Sabbath without fail...I have been blessed beyond measure since I have observed His holy day...and it is a pure joy!
Quote:
Originally Posted by brakelite
Note that in the synagogues were Jews and Greeks (Gentiles). Three Sabbath days in a row, and not one suggestion or hint or intimation of any meeting on a Sunday. Then a little later...
18:1 ¶ After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth; 2 And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome and came unto them. 3 And because he was of the same craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by their occupation they were tentmakers. 4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
Note carefully...every Sabbath...both Jews and Greeks!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rejoicer
The Jews that didn't believe in Jesus continued to meet on Saturday. One of the reasons for the New Church to start meeting on Sunday - to break away from the strict and ritualistic methods of the Jews, that didn't accept Jesus as the Lord, the Son of God.
This is just simply not true Rejoicer. You preach a false gospel, not the Gospel of Jesus Christ. True, some Jewish people did not believe the Messiah had indeed come. They just couldn't handle not seeing a rich king adorned with silver and gold arriving to save them from the evil rulers of the time. No, that was not who they "pictured" to be their coming Messiah...instead here came a humble, lowly human being...precious, gentle and sincere about the love he had for His Father...and taught and healed with miracles by the Holy Spirit...this just couldn't be their coming Messiah!..this carpenter from Gallalee. How wrong they were.
But this did not change how all of our forefathers; all the prophets of old; all of Israel kept the Sabbath Day [Saturday] holy unto God. It was written as the Fourth Commandment right along with all of the other Nine...to be kept and observed if you plan on entering into the Kingdom of God. For sin willnot enter in...and sin is simply the transgression of the laws of God...the laws of God are the Ten Commandments. So, sin is the transgression of any of the Ten Commandments, including the Fourth one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brakelite
You can be fully assured that Paul was not repairing or making tents on the Sabbath. What was he doing? Resting and preaching the word according to the commandment. To both gentiles, and Jews, in fact to anyone who would listen, and not just in the synagogues, but also by the riverside.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rejoicer
Like I mentioned. Paul was a Jew and he was accustomed to following the practice of the Jews. But the Bible is rife with scripture indicating that Paul was aware that Christians were meeting on Sunday and nowhere in the Bible are they rebuked for it.
They were not rebuked for not keeping it because they kept it from Friday night sundown until Saturday night sundown. It is proven over and over again in Scripture...you are blind to the truth as you scim over it without understanding...the truth is veiled from you because you do not believe. You do not understand because you do not read it in Spirit and in Truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brakelite
And throughout the course of his life, Paul was constantly attacked, vilified, persecuted, beaten, and imprisoned because of his faith. The Jews were relentless in their pursuit of him and in their hatred and determination to see him killed. And throughout this great battle of minds and the accompanying spiritual warfare the controversy centred around the new faith and its new beliefs.
And the main difference? Circumcision. Nothing else. Read Acts 24 when Paul stood before his accusers and Felix. Paul answered:
Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: 15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. 16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.
Since the Exodus, the Sabbath has been the central institution of the Jewish nation. That was why the other days were named 1st day, 2nd day, 3rd day, 4th day etc, 1st day after the Sabbath.... Yet throughout Paul's illustrious career, not one hint or suggestion of accusation from any Jew at any time anywhere that Paul even once, failed to keep the Sabbath day holy. And likewise, only once, just once, was there an actual meeting on the first day Sunday, and that was actually Saturday evening after dark, continuing to midnight. Very likely a continuation from a normal Sabbath meeting. And the purpose of the extended meeting on that Saturday night? It was to farewell Paul who was travelling the next day (Sunday morning!!!! note...not going to church!!!) to another city.
The evidence for the establishment of Sunday as a replacement for Sabbath within a Biblical context is flimsy at best, circumstantial only, and is an extremely shaky foundation upon which to build such an important doctrine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rejoicer
I know a certain denomination that proclaims that Saturday is supposed to be the day of worship wants very strongly to believe they are right and the rest of us are wrong. However, the NT, where the disciples are all aware that people were meeting on Sunday, nowhere are they being told it was wrong. I believe God is very pleased with people who sincerely set aside one day in His honor to worship Him and put all other things aside. If it is Saturday for you, that is great, my church happens to meet on Sunday, (although we do have a Saturday night service for those that are unable to attend on Sunday) and I see no conflict in the Bible with it. What God dislikes most (as Jesus claimed about the Pharisees) was when people start feeling arrogant about how they are better because they do "thus and so"!
"One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God," (Rom. 14:5-6).
Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
But it is not enough that our consciences consent to what we do; it is necessary that it be certified from the word of God. Take heed of acting against a doubting conscience. We are all apt to make our own views the standard of truth, to deem things certain which to others appear doubtful.
One man esteemeth - Greek "judgeth" κρίνει krinei. The word is here properly translated "esteemeth;" compare Acts 13:46: "Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles." and Acts 16:15: "And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us."
The word originally has the idea of "separating," and then "discerning," in the act of judging. The expression means that one would set a higher value on one day than on another, or would regard it as more sacred than others. This was the case with the "Jews" uniformly, who regarded the days of their festivals, and fasts, and Sabbaths as especially sacred, and who would retain, to no inconsiderable degree, their former views, even after they became converted to Christianity.
Romans 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
He that regardeth - Greek, "Thinketh of;" or pays attention to; that is, he that "observes" it as a festival, or as holy time.
The day - Any of the days under discussion; the days that the Jews kept as religious occasions. Regardeth unto the Lord - Regards it as "holy," or as set apart to the service of God. He believes that he is "required" by God to keep it, that is, that the laws of Moses in regard to such days are binding on him.
He that regardeth not the day - Or who does not observe such distinctions of days as are demanded in the laws of Moses.
To the Lord ... - That is, he does not believe that God "requires" such an observance. He that eateth - The Gentile Christian, who freely eats all kinds of meat; compare with Romans 14:2: "For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs."
None of this excludes the keeping of the Seventh Day Sabbath as commanded by God Himself...and was observed by all of our precious forefathers, prophets, and sisters and brothers of old...and now even...the children of God...then Israel and their neighbors and the strangers that lived amongst them...now spiritual Israel...those of us who walk in Him..His beloved who obey His commandments...Hallelujah!...\o/
God Bless you! May the LORD open up your eyes of understanding so that you may know what is truth...and live by that. Amen.
I AM NOT A SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST, NOR ANY DENOMINATION, JUST THE WORD, KING JAMES pick up good non-adventist commentaries they will tell you it has not changed either, people just don't want to keep it.
.
In answer to an earlier question E, I am a Seventh Day Adventist.
Oh uh, I guess Rejoicer doesn't understand. So please, I would like to help you in your understanding, then, if you seek earnestly for His truth, with all of your heart thereafterwards, God will reveal His truth to you too...I pray for that.
Gee, another poster that seems to have the need to change fonts and make it all that much more difficult to separate the sentences - but I will "joyfully" wade through your post in the spirit of brotherhood.
And, FYI, Rejoicer understands quite well. I have sought His truth, and He hasn't shown me that I'm wrong for worshiping Him in church on Sunday, and everyday of my life wherever I may be. He has revealed His truth to me, and it doesn't include anything about Saturday being the day that I should go to church.
Quote:
Paul simply wanted to have everything ready when he came, and gave directions that there be no gatherings when he was with them. He didn't want there to be any interruptions durring his time with them, of gathering money on the Sabbath Day...the seventh day...Saturday. Thus he ordered them "to keep in store" their contributions beforehand, to be given to the hurting saints of that day.
That is your opinion, in order to justify your claims, but there is nothing in the Bible that says that Paul insisted they worship on Saturday. In fact, when Jesus was resurrected, he visited the disciples where they were meeting on Sunday, and Jesus (the Lord of the Sabbath) didn't rebuke them for meeting on Sunday. Surely, if it was that important to meet on Saturday, you would have thought Jesus would have said something to them. But, instead, this is what He said.
John 20:19 That Sunday evening the disciples were meeting behind locked doors because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders. Suddenly, Jesus was standing there among them! "Peace be with you," he said.
Quote:
Only through the traditions of man did the Jewish Sabbath on the seventh day change from Saturday to Sunday. Constintine changed it approximately 300 years after the resurrection of Jesus Christ, not God. God has NEVER changed the Holy Sabbath of Rest from Saturday to Sunday...and with the correct study of God's word you will find this to be so. You cannot prove, through Scripture otherwise, if understood in Spirit and in Truth. He said to REMEMBER the Sabbath...why? because it was established from the beginning of creation...the Sabbath was always...and IS forever and ever a perpeual covenant between God and His beloved own...a holy seal...upon those who keep it.
Constantine did not change the Sabbath to Sunday, all he did was acknowledge Sunday as the day of rest for the Romans Empire, something tey had been doing for nearly 2 1/2 centuries.
Constantine is not changing the Sabbath; he is merely making Sunday the official day of rest for the Roman Empire. His motivation was probably not born out of hatred for the Jews (it's hard to say for sure why Constantine or any historical figure did what they did)but out of a desire to adopt what the Christians had practiced for nearly two and a half centuries. Did Constantine change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday?
Quote:
There is nothing wrong with gathering on a Sunday to fellowship one with another...the Sabbath isn't to replace any day that Christians would like to gather together in praise and worship and study of God's word. The important thing to remember is this though, Sabbath Keepers are scorned and called liars and heathens and blasphemers by the world who do not keep this holy day, as witnessed right here on this board...and it quite difficult to gather with un-likeminded people and still be able to peacefully observe your God on His Holy Day as well...it brings to light the sin that the world is in..and they do not take to that very well...as can be testified by the intense hatred of of the world toward the saints of God who keep His Day holy. So once you have been given the knowledge of the truth, to keep the Sabbath holy...the seventh day Sabbath, you will find it a wonderful blessing to find those who are like-minded to gather on any day to worship God through song and prayer and study and breaking bread with one another...without forsaking or turning your foot away from keeping God's holy Day, Saturday unto Him.[/font]
I have not done any of the things you have mentioned, in fact I mentioned to the other poster that if he felt that Saturday was the day he wanted to worship, that it was fine with me. I have studied the Bible at length and I just don't happen to agree with your claims, and it is disconcerting for someone to insinuate that I don't know the Lord because I happen to see it differently.
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I celebrate Jesus' resurrection every day by the way I live my life...in accordance with God's will for my life...to be an overcomer of my sinful nature by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit of Christ that is within me. I do not grieve the Holy Spirit by wrong doings...I worship Him in Spirit and in truth...I have died to sin and I live IN Christ...and I honor God on the seventh day Sabbath without fail...I have been blessed beyond measure since I have observed His holy day...and it is a pure joy!
That is wonderful, I am happy to hear that God has blessed you and that you are living your life in accordance with God's will. I, too, have been immeasurably blessed, and I don't interpret His word to mean that I am still under the law. Jesus died on the cross to set me free from the Law, in Jeremiah 31:31, God promised to make a "new covenant" - and that time came when Jesus came and died for my sins. I don't even have to remember the 10 Commandments, because the Holy Spirit that lives within me is there to convict me when I do something that displeases God. And some of those things aren't even listed in the 10 Commandments.
"The time is coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.
Jeremiah 31:31
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[font=Georgia]This is just simply not true Rejoicer. You preach a false gospel, not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
No wonder, some posters have called your sect a bunch of liars - how dare you tell me that I preach a false gospel. I won't even bother to address the rest of your post, I have never seen such arrogance from people that claim to be dedicated to Jesus as their Lord. Have a good day!
I just wanted to thank you for partaking in this discussion. At length, I wanted people to challenge me with verses saying the Sabbath was changed to Sunday. Or at least that it was common practice to keep Sunday Holy, thereby changing of the 4th Commandment written in stone.
You made mention of this verse. Let us take a look at it.
1 Corinthians 16:1-2
Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.
I changed the color from red, because the Moderators cannot stand for others to use red since they do.
In this verse translated to english, I would like for you to check out the lexicons and see what the verse actually should say. It will totally suprise you. Yes, it says the first Sabbath, not the first day of every week. I am serious, look it up.
I also wanted to let everyone know this simple fact.
If I am decieved, then would I defend a lie?
If you are decieved, would you not defend your lie?
If the Christian religion was decieved, would they defend their lie?
The simple answer is yes, we ALL would. So, how do you know you are not defending what is in all actuality, a lie? It is the biggest of questions, and the actions and ramifications are severe.
I have seriously studied this. I also have seriously prayed about this. I also have been, and am being brought into, the Truth.
Not one jot, nor tittle, will pass away from the Law. It is that simple. How can ANY man say otherwise? So, if the illusion is that it has, then we as followers of one King, and seekers of His Truth, must be Berean and search out this in and using scriptures. Both testaments.
So, you have anything else to confirm this change of the Law?
So, you have anything else to confirm this change of the Law?
Hebrews 4
"1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."
I'm not saying that you have to believe things like I do, Tony. To each man his own.
For myself, I see how this whole Sabbath-keeping issue is creating nothing more than division here. It's probably more problematic than ET-UR.
The Jews didn't enter their rest because they didn't believe. And they didn't believe because God gave them a spirit of slumber.
But for believers in Christ Jesus, HE has become our Sabbath.
"1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."
I'm not saying that you have to believe things like I do, Tony. To each man his own.
For myself, I see how this whole Sabbath-keeping issue is creating nothing more than division here. It's probably more problematic than ET-UR.
The Jews didn't enter their rest because they didn't believe. And they didn't believe because God gave them a spirit of slumber.
But for believers in Christ Jesus, HE has become our Sabbath.
Hoping this will not fan the flames too much..
Blessings,
brian
You and I see this rest here in Hebrews as something entirely different. Brian, I understand where you are coming from. The problem though, is that scripture doesn't line up with the rest here in Hebrews, and ALL the rest of scripture. Therefore, it must be talking of a different rest, which I believe.
If you read verse 1 and 2, it is talking about God's rest. It isn't talking about God's commandment. We rest, after this life, not before. We, who keep the Sabbath, keep it Holy. It is a sign, between God and His people. It is not the rest God is talking about for Himself, as His work is done. When our work is done, then we who believe enter into that SAME rest as God's. We but get a taste if it, on Sabbath. Soon though, it will be permanent.
But, like I said. If we are decieved, then only the Spirit of Truth can reveal what needs to be revealed, at the appointed time. I have sought this out. I am still seeking this out. Not for anyone else's Truth, but my own.
You and I see this rest here in Hebrews as something entirely different. Brian, I understand where you are coming from. The problem though, is that scripture doesn't line up with the rest here in Hebrews, and ALL the rest of scripture. Therefore, it must be talking of a different rest, which I believe.
If you read verse 1 and 2, it is talking about God's rest. It isn't talking about God's commandment. We rest, after this life, not before. We, who keep the Sabbath, keep it Holy. It is a sign, between God and His people. It is not the rest God is talking about for Himself, as His work is done. When our work is done, then we who believe enter into that SAME rest as God's. We but get a taste if it, on Sabbath. Soon though, it will be permanent.
But, like I said. If we are decieved, then only the Spirit of Truth can reveal what needs to be revealed, at the appointed time. I have sought this out. I am still seeking this out. Not for anyone else's Truth, but my own.
Peace,
Tony
It is indeed an interesting issue, although I have honestly never felt "condemned" as some people say I should, just because I didn't keep it.
At wikipedia we can see that many religions observe a sabbath, including wiccans. Sabbath - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So I don't think it is a "sign" just for Christians. Or perhaps it was at one point, but apparently many religions enjoy such a practice now, so it isn't exactly "exclusive."
If I'm deceived, I trust that the Lord will show me this too. We're all seeking, Friend!
Blessings,
brian
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