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.sparrow my friend...there is no "will be saved"...they already were...now it is just coming to that realization and serving Him that brings covenant life blessings......
.sparrow my friend...there is no "will be saved"...they already were.....
Hey there, it's just a term I used. So many say "so many will not be saved" "most will not be saved", "not all are saved", etc. I'm just responding to the idea of "not all being saved", I'm really not getting into that particular detail of "will be" versus "are" at this time, really.
I will have to respectfully and vehemently disagree, if one can do that at the same time. His blessings are not on the child who is raped and tortured, who is allowed to grow up with a twisted view of love, who begins to drink or drug herself/himself to numb the pain, who listens to the fire and brimstone message of Christianity with its history of torture, confusion, and pagan hells and who walks off into adulthood a broken and sick individual. This child/adult is not at all blessed. The sun does not shine for them, the stars only speak of doom as they collapse, the flowers wilt and die, and the madness marches on in their world. This goes for those who grow up in the mayhem of Africa as child soldiers, the Asian children who were set on fire from bombs the Christians in America dropped on them, and millions of others who didn't or don't have a day of peace or love in their short lives.
I respect where you're coming from but what I said is true. As I also said, experiencing God's blessings doesn't mean that a person's life is all good and trouble free. Even one who is brutally raped has experienced God's blessing in their life. I did NOT say that the rape was a blessing and I don't know why you would automatically jump to something so horrific as an example. But one horrible experience does NOT mean that a person hasn't experienced God's blessings. And one person being raped does not negate God's blessings on everyone.
However, to use your example, one of the blessings may be that that person wasn't killed in the act, as so many are. That person, after time and healing, may go on to counsel rape attackers or victims. They may be able to prevent or stop a rapist because of what they went through. Even in rape, God can use that horrific experience for His glory, and the good of others, if the rape victim will allow Him to.
Your view of Christianity is one of utter violence. There's bitterness in your tone. I understand your feelings but your facts aren't straight. What Christians bombed Asian children? How do you know the people dropping bombs were Christians? Even if a person calls themselves a Christian, it doesn't make them one. Believing in God does not make a person a Christian. Neither does going to church, giving to the poor, or doing good deeds. Christianity isn't bought or earned or even declared.
I can wear an orange robe, shave my head, chant in airports and call myself a Hare Krishna. But, unless I'm LIVING OUT the tenets of their faith, I would be a fake. A liar. I would be doing damage to who the Hare Krishnas really are. The same applies towards Christianity and the scriptures warns about people like that. Westboro Baptist Church is neither Baptist nor Christian, for example. But, on the other hand, neither is the little old lady who knits baby blankets for premature babies and feeds the homeless if she hasn't repented from her sins and obeys God.
It would be... unless you didn't read the rest of the post which explains why it's not.
ETA: Yes, that's my first, initial reaction. Horror! But, I (along with every other person who ever lived) am imperfect. I don't know everything. I created nothing. God created it all. And, since He is perfect, knowing all things, that's where Christians take comfort in placing their trust in Him - because we KNOW His ways are just and perfect, even if we don't understand them completely.
Last edited by plain and simple; 06-05-2011 at 09:10 PM..
Reason: To further explain. A short response can often be mistaken as being snotty.
.sparrow my friend...there is no "will be saved"...they already were...now it is just coming to that realization and serving Him that brings covenant life blessings......
How were they already saved? That's not what the Bible teaches about predestination, election, and foreknowledge. Did they get a golden ticket that exempted them from having to repent and be born-again. No person is born as a born-again Christian so how is it that "they already were" saved?
I respect where you're coming from but what I said is true. As I also said, experiencing God's blessings doesn't mean that a person's life is all good and trouble free. Even one who is brutally raped has experienced God's blessing in their life. I did NOT say that the rape was a blessing and I don't know why you would automatically jump to something so horrific as an example. But one horrible experience does NOT mean that a person hasn't experienced God's blessings..
I'm not talking about one horrible experience that happens to somebody coming from a loving home or environment, my dear, which is bad enough. Maybe you should re-read what I wrote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by plain and simple
However, to use your example, one of the blessings may be that that person wasn't killed in the act, as so many are. That person, after time and healing, may go on to counsel rape attackers or victims. They may be able to prevent or stop a rapist because of what they went through. Even in rape, God can use that horrific experience for His glory, and the good of others, if the rape victim will allow Him to. .
Let me put your words in the way that Christianity or Islam (between the lines) says it: "One of the blessing may be that that person wasn't killed in the act, as so many are. That person, after time and healing, may go on to counsel rape attackers or victims. Even in rape, God can use that horrific experience for His glory, but should that child grow up with a demented view of love and family, and should that child become entangled in their own mind, and should that child grow up a drug addict and turn away from love/light, the light will forever abandon them to the depths of the darkest hell that has ever existed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by plain and simple
Your view of Christianity is one of utter violence.
I'm not talking about one horrible experience that happens to somebody coming from a loving home or environment, my dear, which is bad enough. Maybe you should re-read what I wrote.
I re-read it as you asked but I don't think I'm seeing what you're trying to say then. To me it reads like you blame Christians for certain horrors. If I'm mistaken, please help me to understand.
Quote:
Let me put your words in the way that Christianity or Islam (between the lines) says it: "One of the blessing may be that that person wasn't killed in the act, as so many are. That person, after time and healing, may go on to counsel rape attackers or victims. Even in rape, God can use that horrific experience for His glory, but should that child grow up with a demented view of love and family, and should that child become entangled in their own mind, and should that child grow up a drug addict and turn away from love/light, the light will forever abandon them to the depths of the darkest hell that has ever existed.
It's not my view. It's a fact.
Yes, that could turn out to be the case. There are many directions this victim could take. Even if that person never reaches out to God in their life, it doesn't mean that He's not there, longing for them to do so. It doesn't mean that nothing good ever happens to that person. It doesn't mean that they've never been blessed by God.
You seem to be wanting God to act in specific ways according to your own understanding and desires. That is elevating yourself to God's level and lowering God to man's level. It's saying that you know best. I understand that thinking on a surface level, but it goes so much deeper than that. There's so much more to be taken into account.
That's a very good, and fair, question. My first reaction is that of horror! I don't have the desire to see anyone suffer are Christians supposed to.
No one likes to think that a loving and gracious God would send people to hell, but that is exactly what the Bible teaches.
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow.
That should be your red flag, friend.
peace,
sparrow
Quote:
Originally Posted by plain and simple
It would be... unless you didn't read the rest of the post which explains why it's not.
ETA: Yes, that's my first, initial reaction. Horror! But, I (along with every other person who ever lived) am imperfect. I don't know everything. I created nothing. God created it all. And, since He is perfect, knowing all things, that's where Christians take comfort in placing their trust in Him - because we KNOW His ways are just and perfect, even if we don't understand them completely.
The bold in your prior post is the key to your accepting such evil as good. You are letting the Bible "written in ink" and the "precepts and doctrines of men" taught to you be your guide and overriding what God has "written in our hearts." There is no way you can sincerely search your heart and ever consider the existence of such an evil place as in any way good. The God is mysterious just doesn't cut it. Evil is evil . . . no matter who you think is doing it.
Jesus abides with us and we do not need any man to teach us and we do not rely on words "written in ink" because the "letter killeth."
1 John 2:27 (King James Version)
27But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.
2 Corinthians 3: 2-6 (King James Version) 2Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter,but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
God is the Savior of all men because He is their only possible Savior.
My God is not a possible Saviour, He is a Saviour, and He saves His People from their sins Matt 1:21
21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
He is limited to saving only His People from their sins !
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