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You are implying that the point Jeshua was making was that one day out of 7 was for the rest of the body...The Atheist Soviet Union had, in the past, saw what the consequences were when they created a ten day work week...
You and others have not yet seen the difference between the Mosaic Law (The added law of Galatians 3:19) and The Ten Commandments. It is a serious error to suggest that The Ten Commandments are one with the ceremonial law.
We see the difference. No one is suggesting that the Ten Commandments are one with the cermonial law. you will not see that stated in ANY of what I said.
(2 Cor 3:7-11)Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory?
Were the ceremonial laws carved in letters on stone?
What is clear is that ALL previous covenants are superceded by the Messianic Covenant. I do not see anything in your presentation to support that the LAW of the Ten Commandments. As we all know the intent of the Ten Commandments ARE included in the Messianic Covenent but there are many verse that help us to understand the observance of those commandments is no longer under Law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry
You are wrong.
Blessing to you my friend,
Verna.
I appreciate that you feel you are right and also feel I am wrong, but that means very little since personal opinion is not really the topic.
What I see in your presentation is that you have specific verses to support your belief that the Law of the Ten Commandments are still in effect. I see that your references are scriptural and sound when viewed in isolation.
I stand by my statement and feel I have demonstrated what I believe to be true too. The Jehovah's Witnesses do follow the Bible, the entire Bible. There are a substantial number of scriptures that I have presented, and more available to examine, that demonstrate the LAW of the Ten Commandments has ended.
No one is suggesting that the Ten Commandments have ended. They are merely observed in a different manner under the Messianic Covenant.
When ALL of the scriptural evidence is examined and known to be true, the conclusion is reached that the observance of the LAW of the Ten Commandments under the Messianic Covenant has come to an end. We have entered into Jehovah's day of rest by accepting the salvation he has offered through his Son. The Israelites had not entered Jehovah day of rest, and therefore had a different method of observance of the sabbath (Heb 4:4-11)
We see the difference. No one is suggesting that the Ten Commandments are one with the cermonial law. you will not see that stated in ANY of what I said.
(2 Cor 3:7-11)Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory?
Were the ceremonial laws carved in letters on stone?
What is clear is that ALL previous covenants are superceded by the Messianic Covenant. I do not see anything in your presentation to support that the LAW of the Ten Commandments. As we all know the intent of the Ten Commandments ARE included in the Messianic Covenent but there are many verse that help us to understand the observance of those commandments is no longer under Law.
I appreciate that you feel you are right and also feel I am wrong, but that means very little since personal opinion is not really the topic.
What I see in your presentation is that you have specific verses to support your belief that the Law of the Ten Commandments are still in effect. I see that your references are scriptural and sound when viewed in isolation.
I stand by my statement and feel I have demonstrated what I believe to be true too. The Jehovah's Witnesses do follow the Bible, the entire Bible. There are a substantial number of scriptures that I have presented, and more available to examine, that demonstrate the LAW of the Ten Commandments has ended.
No one is suggesting that the Ten Commandments have ended. They are merely observed in a different manner under the Messianic Covenant.
When ALL of the scriptural evidence is examined and known to be true, the conclusion is reached that the observance of the LAW of the Ten Commandments under the Messianic Covenant has come to an end. We have entered into Jehovah's day of rest by accepting the salvation he has offered through his Son. The Israelites had not entered Jehovah day of rest, and therefore had a different method of observance of the sabbath (Heb 4:4-11)
You and I will simply have to agree to disagree my friend.
I will trust in the word of God.
Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments."
To love God you must keep His commandments. If you do not keep them, you do not know Him, nor does He know you.
John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. John 15:10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love. 1 John 2:3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 1 John 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
The problem you have is that you get what you know from the watch tower, I get it from a wide variety of materials...And yes, I can read Greek and understand what I am reading...So, I really do not concern myself with what you say...Because I have been down your road...
LOL When faced with the true academic issues, you digress into the misinformed prejudicial propaganda regarding Witnesses. Contrary to your assertion the informtion I have been referencing is from trinitarian theological documentation. Your claims do not even address the topics of the academic explinations for the translation of John 1:1 that they provide. Your claim that is it just says God, you read it, it is absured!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
I just wonder why any other translation outside the NWT, going back hundreds of years has John 1:1 translated as 'God'...Fact is capitalization or not has nothing to do with it...The Greek did not have lower case letters until the Middle Ages...
You should not only wonder, you should do research! Then you will find that the accurate translation of "the Word was a god" has been around as long as the trinitarian translation.
LOL! You are right the capitalization of the Greek has NOTHING to do with it. However, the capitalization you arbitrarily insert into your english translation DOES. You really do not get it! LOL! You should start reading a WIDER variety of materials, like some real academic materials instead of anti-JW propaganda from nitwits.
Do you agree with that statement that only Jehovah's Witnesses are true worshipers of God?
I've heard most groups of Christianity make this claim at some time or another, especially Conservatives. They essentially believe if you don't accept things exactly as they do you're not a "True Christian".
JWs aren't exactly the only ones who use that absurd fallacy.
You and I will simply have to agree to disagree my friend.
I will trust in the word of God.
Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments."
To love God you must keep His commandments. If you do not keep them, you do not know Him, nor does He know you.
John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. John 15:10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love. 1 John 2:3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 1 John 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
I love God.
Good Night my friend,
Verna.
I just want to point out that we are in agreement with all of these scriptures, we do keep ALL of the commands and KEEP the commandments, we just do not maintain the ceremony of the Israelites now that we are in Jehovah's day of rest.
We agree, but exercise our agreement in different ways.
LOL When faced with the true academic issues, you digress into the misinformed prejudicial propaganda regarding Witnesses. Contrary to your assertion the informtion I have been referencing is from trinitarian theological documentation. Your claims do not even address the topics of the academic explinations for the translation of John 1:1 that they provide. Your claim that is it just says God, you read it, it is absured!
I am not speaking of trinitarian beliefe here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWW1962
You should not only wonder, you should do research! Then you will find that the accurate translation of "the Word was a god" has been around as long as the trinitarian translation.
It is not 'a god' for there are no other god's before Hawyaw....I've read a lot of translations and onlt find 'a god' in the NWT....
[quote=BWW1962;22292008] LOL! You are right the capitalization of the Greek has NOTHING to do with it. However, the capitalization you arbitrarily insert into your english translation DOES. You really do not get it! LOL! You should start reading a WIDER variety of materials, like some real academic materials instead of anti-JW propaganda from nitwits.[/quote]
The material I read, unlike yourself, is not only published by the WT...By the way, my wife is a JW....
I am not speaking of trinitarian beliefe here.......
Yes, we see that. You are mainly trying to establish that you have authoritative credentials to render an opinion on the translation of Koine Greek. However, your commentary has thus far demonstrated that you have yet to achieve even a novice status.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
That is personal to show respect for Hawyaw...I usually cap the Word...I missed it somehow........
This is kind of statement demonstrates you do not have a grasp of even the basic methods of translation. The Koine Greek word logos is translated as the capitalized Word because it is respectful? LOL!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
It is not 'a god' for there are no other god's before Hawyaw....I've read a lot of translations and onlt find 'a god' in the NWT........
Again you propose a ludicrous rebuttal by suggesting "a god" in the accurate translation "the Word was a god" would be a polytheistic statement.
First, this is a gross demonstration of bias: the accurate translation is denied because it is believed that the theology of monotheism will not allow it! This type of assertion is not part of any authoritative translation method.
Second, the accurate translation of "the Word was a god" does not represent polytheism. The discussion of what does "a god" mean is completely abrogated if this biased and illogical argument of polytheism is allowed to derail the proper translation methods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
The material I read, unlike yourself, is not only published by the WT...By the way, my wife is a JW....
You know my reading habits? LOL!
Your attempts to declare your expertise or to call mine into question with these kinds of statements is amusing. In the end it is the quality of the information posted that really matters.
The Soviet union, If I remember correctly, about 20 or 30 years ago, decided to institute a 10 day work week, beings they did not believe in Hawyaw, the Sabbath did not apply to them, or so they thought, and the results were that there was a significant increase in violence, murders and even the work animals were attacking their masters and each other...Therefore, proving that no matter whether they believed in Hawyaw or not, their violation of His commandment brought dire consequences and proving that the Sabbath was made for the man, not man for the Sabbath...So, when asked whether to observe the Sabbath or not, one man holds one day above another, let each be convinced in his own mind...IOW, it is the intention of Hawyaw for man to work 6 days and rest the 7th...It does not matter which day, but, one must rest every 7 days...
Yes, we see that. You are mainly trying to establish that you have authoritative credentials to render an opinion on the translation of Koine Greek. However, your commentary has thus far demonstrated that you have yet to achieve even a novice status.
This is kind of statement demonstrates you do not have a grasp of even the basic methods of translation. The Koine Greek word logos is translated as the capitalized Word because it is respectful? LOL!
Again you propose a ludicrous rebuttal by suggesting "a god" in the accurate translation "the Word was a god" would be a polytheistic statement.
First, this is a gross demonstration of bias: the accurate translation is denied because it is believed that the theology of monotheism will not allow it! This type of assertion is not part of any authoritative translation method.
Second, the accurate translation of "the Word was a god" does not represent polytheism. The discussion of what does "a god" mean is completely abrogated if this biased and illogical argument of polytheism is allowed to derail the proper translation methods.
You know my reading habits? LOL!
Your attempts to declare your expertise or to call mine into question with these kinds of statements is amusing. In the end it is the quality of the information posted that really matters.
You really have no isea what I know about linguistisa...I've been involved in linguistics since the age of 8, delving into every nook and crany, I am now 46...Reading what you have written here, I have seen and read about before...It matters not what you think you know regarding my academic status...However, regarding yours, I know all to well, for I have studied these things with an open mind searching for Truth of Hawyaw...You seem relatively new to JW...
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