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Tell me this, does God's Word say that only by hearing His Word, having the gospel preached to them by a person, is the only way to salvation?
No, it doesn't.
God says 'those who seek me with all their heart will find me'.
That's right, it does. It just doesn't say when this will happen. You believe it must happen during a person's mortal life, while I believe it can happen during the period of time a person is awaiting his resurrection.
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Even deaf and blind Helen Keller is noted as saying that before the gospel was shared with her, that she believed in God but just did not know His name.
Did Anne Frank know God? I'm sure she'd say she did, but she probably didn't know the "right" God, the same one Helen Keller knew. Right?
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I believe God put in each and every one of us a desire to know Him. We either fill it with Him or with something else (endless list).
Recognizing the existance of a Higher Power and accepting the Atonement of Jesus Christ are not one and the same, in my opinion. I'm assuming you believe they are. Am I right?
Since Christ's two pre-eminent commands covering all the law are to "love God and each other" . . . how can you say that with a straight face. Do you actually believe that the Gospel is to save your soul by flattering God by believing and professing the specific "precepts and doctrines of men" ABOUT Him? Do you really believe our God is that shallow and superficial?::Sigh::
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Originally Posted by TheoGeek
We don't live under the Law anymore. That's how.
If you want to live under the Law, knock yourself out. You won't be able to. No one can. Abraham was made righteous by faith--long before the Law was in effect, and that's how Christians are saved today. By faith--not the Law.
Tell me this, does God's Word say that only by hearing His Word, having the gospel preached to them by a person, is the only way to salvation?
No, it doesn't.
Good start.
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God says 'those who seek me with all their heart will find me'.
Even deaf and blind Helen Keller is noted as saying that before the gospel was shared with her, that she believed in God but just did not know His name.
I believe God put in each and every one of us a desire to know Him. We either fill it with Him or with something else (endless list).
True. How do you think this occurred? Christ has a human consciousness that is identical to God's Holy Spirit. When He died and was reborn as Spirit (as He told Nicodemus we must be) . . . His Holy Spirit within the collective human consciousness became available to ALL human beings with consciousness. The difference is we do not all listen to the inner guidance and promptings we receive (do not accept Christ's guidance). Those who DO and exhibit it in their daily lives are Christians . . . those who do not are unbelievers regardless what they claim to intellectually believe.
I'm not going to jump into the midst of this silly argument. Scripture is very clear on this subject.
1. Only believers in Christ are saved.
2. Faith only comes to those who hear the word and believe. All others are damned. Its very simple. Scripture makes this clear in many places. You can argue with human logic and reason, but someone who argues that way has no source of authority that they can cite to make their point unless they want to corrupt the clear message of the Bible. Their "logic" and "reason" is simply the imagination of their mind. Think about it. Jesus disciples were directly taught by Jesus and after Jesus ascension and Pentecost, set out to bring the Gospel to the world. But today, 2000 years later, we have people who think they know better than Jesus 12 disciples. The arrogance is amazing.
Ac 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Ac 2:39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call." Ac 2:40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." Ac 2:41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
I'm not going to jump into the midst of this silly argument.
Huh? You already did, several posts back, and here you are again. I can't imagine why you would continue to share your point of view on a topic you find "silly." Furthermore, I can't imagine why you would find the supposed damnation of human beings like yourself to be "silly" in the first place. I suppose that because you're off the hook, your fellow man's eternal destiny is a trivial matter.
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Scripture is very clear on this subject.
1. Only believers in Christ are saved.
2. Faith only comes to those who hear the word and believe. All others are damned. Its very simple. Scripture makes this clear in many places. You can argue with human logic and reason, but someone who argues that way has no source of authority that they can cite to make their point unless they want to corrupt the clear message of the Bible. Their "logic" and "reason" is simply the imagination of their mind. Think about it. Jesus disciples were directly taught by Jesus and after Jesus ascension and Pentecost, set out to bring the Gospel to the world. But today, 2000 years later, we have people who think they know better than Jesus 12 disciples. The arrogance is amazing.
To me, it's not "clear" at all how God can say He is no respecter of persons and yet condemn billions for something beyond their control.
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Ac 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Ac 2:39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call." Ac 2:40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." Ac 2:41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
And what about the people living in the middle of some remote village in Africa that day? What did they do to deserve to be God's eternal firewood? They rejected a message they never heard. Dumb people. Aren't you glad you weren't one of them? And why do you think God loves you more than He does them?
I'm not going to jump into the midst of this silly argument. Scripture is very clear on this subject.
1. Only believers in Christ are saved.
2. Faith only comes to those who hear the word and believe. All others are damned. Its very simple. Scripture makes this clear in many places. You can argue with human logic and reason, but someone who argues that way has no source of authority that they can cite to make their point unless they want to corrupt the clear message of the Bible. Their "logic" and "reason" is simply the imagination of their mind. Think about it. Jesus disciples were directly taught by Jesus and after Jesus ascension and Pentecost, set out to bring the Gospel to the world. But today, 2000 years later, we have people who think they know better than Jesus 12 disciples. The arrogance is amazing.
Ac 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Ac 2:39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call." Ac 2:40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." Ac 2:41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
For such a silly argument that you are not going to jump into, you certainly are participating.
Your scriptural references doesn't make anything clear pertaining to someone who hasn't heard at all. This does include the unborn who die.
You can say to someone, repent and be baptized, but we are talking about people who never have heard of Christ, nor have they ever heard anyone say to them repent and be baptized.
Those scriptures have little if anything to do with someone who hasn't heard anything pertaining to Christ.
And we still have the issue of the unborn babies, who meet that supposed clarity of scriptural intent.
You wrote:
1. Only believers in Christ are saved.
2. Faith only comes to those who hear the word and believe. All others are damned.
ok. so my question is, why are those who believe this so strongly and believe it is right and just so hesitant to include unborn children who meet this criteria. If it is right and just that the unborn are damned to hell, and you believe it, then admit it.
The unborn (not newborns yet) are human beings who have not yet believed, and have not yet heard the word and believe.
They fall into the category of all others.
Now newborns, that is a good one, was it you that stated there was a "rite" that saved children by baptism? Can you post the scripture(s) showing that "rite" saves a newborn and is not a man invented "rite" that won't do jack?
It is easy to critisize those who do not believe as you do, it is more difficult to back up what you say rather than just saying it is true.
I'm not going to jump into the midst of this silly argument. Scripture is very clear on this subject.
1. Only believers in Christ are saved.
2. Faith only comes to those who hear the word and believe. All others are damned. Its very simple. Scripture makes this clear in many places. You can argue with human logic and reason, but someone who argues that way has no source of authority that they can cite to make their point unless they want to corrupt the clear message of the Bible. Their "logic" and "reason" is simply the imagination of their mind. Think about it. Jesus disciples were directly taught by Jesus and after Jesus ascension and Pentecost, set out to bring the Gospel to the world. But today, 2000 years later, we have people who think they know better than Jesus 12 disciples. The arrogance is amazing.
Ac 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Ac 2:39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call." Ac 2:40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." Ac 2:41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
Romans 10:17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
Now newborns, that is a good one, was it you that stated there was a "rite" that saved children by baptism? Can you post the scripture(s) showing that "rite" saves a newborn and is not a man invented "rite" that won't do jack?
Even if the rite of baptism IS a means of grace, what about the babies whose parents who either aren't Christian or don't believe in infant baptism ... if Prarieparson and TwinSpin are correct, then those babies would go to hell if they died as well.
Even if the rite of baptism IS a means of grace, what about the babies whose parents who either aren't Christian or don't believe in infant baptism ... if Prarieparson and TwinSpin are correct, then those babies would go to hell if they died as well.
Wouldn't they also go to Hell if they didn't believe in Christ? How many babies do you know who believe in Christ? (Feel free to include baptized ones in your count. )
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