Tithing Dilemma (Leviticus, scriptures, Moses, pray)

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by 007.5

Can u tell us about the hostility you have toward Christian Churches and the bad experience you must have had at one of them ?

It was the drugs and the all-night sex orgies that did it. They told me they were trying to 'save me'!

[007.5]

Originally Posted by Rafius

....and what happens to you if you show (in your own words) .... "willful disobedience to Gods command"??

I never asserted that it means eternal damnation, so, im afraid you were very presumptuous . Showing willful disobedience to Gods command is a sin like any other sin ; fortunately a person who has decided to get his sins forgiven by trusting in the sin atonement Christ made on the cross , is forgiven of this sin and all others . However, such a person will have to give account for living like this when he stands before Christ ...but his salvation is still guaranteed because of what Christ did and not from living a less than exemplary Christian life. It may be, that, the person who is willfully disobedient to Gods commands is in the infancy of his Christian Walk so some allowance must be made until such a person matures and becomes a more devouted follower and lover of Christ ; when we are saved we dont automatically get all the self centeredness, impure motives, apathetic living removed from us but there should be a steady growth rate occuring as time elapses.

How do you think God should act toward Someone who wants to pretend God isnt real thereby being willfully disobedient to Gods commands and moral laws ? Does such a person deserve mercy from God apart from the finished atoning work of Christ on the cross ? What do think on this ?

[007.5]

Originally Posted by Rafius

It was the drugs and the all-night sex orgies that did it. They told me they were trying to 'save me'!

Either you misunderstood your experience or they had a misconception since a Church (or an individual) cant save another from their sins ... only Christ can do that. If you reach your deathbed, do you think at that time you will just desire another drug induced superbowl of immorality , or, is there a chance youll take what that Church was trying to do in helping you get right with God ?

[sskkc]

Originally Posted by Rafius

Yes. The Church would rather see you evicted and living on the streets than miss out on their cash. Then, when you are on the streets, they can give you a bowl of watery soup and tell you how wonderful 'God' is and how he will attend to your needs.

No, I know my church doesn't feel that way. And if we were evicted, while we were trying to get back on our feet, we'd be welcome at the parsonage - as have other families when THEY have been down and out. Before 'Angel Food' was shut down, our church provided food for families in need in greater abundance, and it wasn't 'watery soup'.

I just wish I could give more. I suppose I've been feeling convicted -I've begun tithing 10% of my paycheck each week, and hope to be able to tithe 10% of dh's also. I'll increase it bit by bit as we go.

Church's do have bills that have nothing to do with missions. And pastors SHOULD be paid - ours has a BMW convertible and plays golf several times a week. He's also a VET and receives disability though, his wife works and he has a small side business. The car was a gift from a former parish, just before he came to us. Our associate pastor also has a second job. Both men make themselves available whenever needed - and we personally have definitely had needs, but not funds - and yet, they've made themselves available to us. Some of that is in part to the generosity of other parishioners. Some churches don't work like this, but MANY DO.

I say, do what you can, but don't feel like you HAVE to give exactly 10% - God will know if you are doing what you are able and if your reasons/motives are pure.

[sun queen]

I get confused over the tithing issue. Isn't it a voluntary thing? If you try and compel people to do it then who is going to benefit? I remember reading in the Bible that the Lord loves a cheerful giver...

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by westcoastbabe

I am a member of an United Methodist Church. Congregation is fairly small, averages about 50-60 members a Sunday. My problem is that none of the members are tithing. Out of the members, I would say that there are 6-8 members who are consistent tithers. The reason I am complaining is because of the lack of consistent tithers, our church bills are beginning to fall behind....We are basically having to rob Peter to pay Paul to pay bills.....Now I know that we are living in dire economic times but what does Malachi 3:10 say. Also I hate to say it...but I also think our members will not pay because our current pastor is very well off. But as a congregation, we should not be envious and jealous because the pastor is well off... I know you can't give what you dont have...but come on $5 from a grown adult every Sunday....I mean you can do better than that. Don't members know that blessings are being blocked.....As a single person, I give a 10th of my paycheck everytime I get paid and I have to say Im better off now than before when I wasnt tithing......You have to trust him....Please chime in on this dilemma and thank you for letting me vent.

Let me ak you something, Where in the New Testament does it tell anyone to Tithe to the Church?...And do you know what the Tithe is according to the Ol Testament?...What does Scripture tell you to do with the money that Yehovaw has blesed you with?...Help other's out?...So, if you are giving 10% to your church, how can you fford to help others out?...And how did your Pastor become so well off in the first place?...We all know how the Likes of Benny Hinn, and Jimmy Swaggart and The Bakers were well off and also others of there ilk...How do you know that the people of your congregation aren't tithing, are you watching them?...If you are, why?...

Here, Read this, this is what the Tithe is:

Deu 14:22 Tithing you shall tithe all the increase of your seed that the field yields year by year.
Deu 14:23 And you shall eat before Jehovah your God in the place which He shall choose to cause His name to dwell there, the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstlings of your herd and of your flock; that you may learn to fear Jehovah your God all your days.
Deu 14:24 And if the way is too long for you, so that you cannot carry it, because the place is too far from you which Jehovah your God shall choose to set His name there, when Jehovah your God shall bless you;
Deu 14:25 Then you shall give it for silver, and bind up the silver in your hand. And you shall go to the place which Jehovah your God shall choose.
Deu 14:26 And you shall pay the silver for whatever your soul desires, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for fermented drink (Strong Drink, i.e Whiskey), or for whatever your soul desires. And you shall eat there before Jehovah your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household.
Deu 14:27 And you shall not forsake the Levite who is within your gates, for he has no portion nor inheritance with you.
Deu 14:28 At the end of three years, even the same year, you shall bring forth all the tithe of your increase, and shall lay it up within your gates.
Deu 14:29 And the Levite, because he has no portion nor inheritance with you, and the alien, and the fatherless, and the widow who are within your gates shall come and shall eat and be satisfied; so that Jehovah your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do.

The Body of Yeshua is not within the walls of a Church building...

Here is some other verses that tell you to help others and there is nothing of tithing in them:


Exodus 17:12 But Moses’ hands grew weary, so they took a stone and put it under him, and he sat on it, while Aaron and Hur held up his hands, one on one side, and the other on the other side. So his hands were steady until the going down of the sun.

Deuteronomy 15:11 For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’
Jesus Spoke About Helping Others

Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2)
Matthew 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 5:42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

Matthew 10:5 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay.

Matthew 25:35-40 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

Luke 3:10-11 And the crowds asked him, “What then shall we do?” And he answered them, “Whoever has two tunics is to share with him who has none, and whoever has food is to do likewise.”

Luke 12:33-34 Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

John 15:12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you…”

Apostles Preached and Wrote About Helping Others
James – Doing
James 1:17 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

James 2:14-17 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
John – Loving
John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

1 John 3:17 But if anyone has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him?

1 John 4:19-20 We love because he first loved us. If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.
Paul – Putting Others First
Acts 20:35-38 In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’” And when he had said these things, he knelt down and prayed with them all. And there was much weeping on the part of all; they embraced Paul and kissed him, being sorrowful most of all because of the word he had spoken, that they would not see his face again. And they accompanied him to the ship.

Romans 12:13 Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality.

Romans 15:1 We who are strong have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves.

2 Corinthians 8:9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich.

Galatians 6:2 Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

Ephesians 4:28 Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need.

Philippians 2:4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.

Does Anybody Love?
What are you doing about help others? How about that little girl that does not have a Mommy, can you invite her to the Mother/Daughter Tea with you? How about that young man that has grown up without a Dad, can you sit with him once a week and teach him the Word of the Lord? What about the lady across the road that is too old to keep the outside or inside of her house in good condition, can you lend a hand – without expecting to be paid? As the Church we are called to love one another and one way that we do that is by helping others. When was the last time you put your love in action? Don’t forget to listen to the video in the upper right of this page “Does Anybody Hear Her” by Casting Crowns; it will make you think and even perhaps it will make you act. - Bible Verses About Helping Others: 21 Top Scriptures

[episkopos]

Checkered24, I don't think the tithe goes solely to the pastor. The command is that 'there may be meat in the house' which obviously is meat for the workers in the house to eat. So definately some goes to the pastor who is part of the house and must be taken care of.

[episkopos]

Originally Posted by sun queen

I get confused over the tithing issue. Isn't it a voluntary thing? If you try and compel people to do it then who is going to benefit? I remember reading in the Bible that the Lord loves a cheerful giver...

It is certainly voluntary but so is the gift of eternal life - Salvation. You can choose to do it or suffer the consequences.

[Bideshi]

I looked all through the New Testament and I couldn't find Malachi 3:10. I did find Malachi 2:1 in the OT which says "This commandment is for you priests". It was written to the Levites who were stealing from the tithes the Jews brought to the temple. Tithing is not for New Covenant Christians. However, we are under an obligation to spread the Gospel to all the world, and to support the Pastors (Gal 6:6). We must keep the lights turned on and the water running in our fellowship halls. It may require more than a tithe. Give "as you purpose in your heart". To him who much is given, much is required. Even Jesus and His disciples received support from the women who followed them "from their substance". This means food and/or money. Give as generously and cheerfully as you can. It is not meant, however, that you should suffer or deprive your family to enrich others. Pray that God will guide you as to what you should offer, and be faithful with your offerings. As you sow, you will reap. Some can't afford much at all, but they may be able to offer to work at the church with child care in the nursery, church clean ups, etc.

[Heartsong]

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

I may be wrong but it seems in today's world tithing is mostly a Christian concept. While us Muslims have a similar practice called zakat our obligation is to give 2.5% the value of what we own to the needy each year. We ourselves select what needy person, people or cause we give that to.

It's a pretty small percentage, but a better use of money than the so-called Christian Tithe IMO.
I agree with those who point out that the tithe is an Old Testament concept which was for Levites specifically. Also, I think people would do well to read the book of Malachi on a more spiritual level than reading it literally which is most often the case with scripture reading.