Tithing Dilemma

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by Rantingdave

The church as with many perversions of hebrew customs created this manufactured form of tithe and we buy it. Why? because if for nothing else its a decent mimmic of the ancient tithe yet having very little to do with how tithe was commanded of God or how it was applied. Most of you know I rant so I'll just simply tell you that there are excellent histories of tithe on the internet that way you won't hate me for going crazy on this subject. My wife and I tithe to widows and orphans and some causes like Pro Life etc.As for my non denominational evangelical church I give an "offering". I have given the church in 18 years 28K far less than 10% Oh my! I alternate mission/church. This is what I do. In Yahoshua, Rantingdave

I think you church should decide what bills need attention an then get together with the congregants and everybody chip in...

[Rantingdave]

The mean average of real tithers is generally 40% depending on the demographics .
Although the orgins of tithing has little connection with the tithing as encouraged by
the church today. At best its a semi-reasonable benchmark for giving. we are then
to top that off with an offering! In fairness many churches would go belly up if not
for tithe. TV evangelists who pay tens of thousands per year for satellite ,studio,
staff and production is an analogy (outside of tithe). The way the 10% was applied
was very much different than today. I have resevations about setting a monatary
cap on giving to one source in spite of the churches deverse distribution not with-
standing mortage,salaries,missions,youth,utilities,maintena nce,and insurance etc.
I have averaged about 6% over 15 years for example and support various charities
and Pro Life. Our church has averaged 44K per week for the last 10 years!

[Mark Miwerds]

Originally Posted by episkopos

Mal 3:8-11 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.


Some people may argue that this is not for us today, but that will mean that none of what the Bible says should matter to us today. It is all about faith and how you receive the word of God as written in the Bible.
You have witnessed how poor and poorer your members are becoming because the Bible says, those who don't pay tithes and give offerings are cursed with a curse. He will not rebuke the devourer that causes poverty from their midst. The members must be taught on tithing extensively to build their faith and remove the idea that the tithes go into the pastor's pockets. Even if it does, he is part of the church expenses unless he is a volunteer preacher.

The Bible commands that tithes should be brought so that there will be meat in the storehouse... have you considered who will eat the meat? God? No the pastor! If you have a problem with the pastor concerning that, don't worry God will deal with it.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the commanded tithe was never for Gentile nations. Read 'em and weep.

Psalms 147:19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.
Psalms 147:20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.

In the Dispensation of the Mosaic Law, from 1410 BC - AD 70, the commanded tithe was for Israel alone. God did not give it to Gentile nations.


Acts 15:10 Now therefore why temptye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Acts 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Acts 15:25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Acts 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Acts 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
Acts 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

After the crucifixion, and God's offering Salvation to the Gentile nations, the religious Jewish Leaders wanted to impose the Mosaic Law upon the Gentiles who were converting to faith in Jesus Christ. The decision of the Apostles and also of the Holy Spirit was that the Gentiles were not to be required to keep the Mosaic Law, but that they observe four necessary things. Tithing was not one of those "necessary things."

And confirmation that we are not required to tithe is easily seen in the fact that there is not one single command for tithing in any of the epistles to the Gentile Churches... not even in the Pastoral epistles of Titus and I&II Timothy.

The last place we see tithing commanded in the Word of God, it is still to be given to, not the Church, the sons of Levi... just as the Law declared. (see Heb. 7:5-9)

Further, the commanded tithe was never money. It was agricultural in its content. (see Lev. 27:30-33; Deut. 14:22-29)

The Gentile Church never received command from God to tithe their money. The monetary tithe requirement doctrine is a man-made doctrine totally foreign to Scripture. And what does God say of those who teach commands of men as if they are God's doctrines?

Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

[Mikelee81]

It's interesting that in the Book of Malachi where God rebukes for cheating tithes He does so in a way that's not bringing down some heavy judgment for not tithing but just the opposite..

you not receiving blessings for not tithing..

I will tithe unto God in an act of Worship. I am not keeping track of 10 percent here or there. I just want to give thankfully as is instructed.

Those that are living off the gospel are to be paid by those working in the world.

1 Corinthians 9:8-10
8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
9 For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.


Paul nails this concept in his writings. No man going to war provides for his own resources (food, weapons, etc).

Now obviously some people are exploiting this concept. The servants of Christ that are doing it for the Kingdom of God, Blessings to them. The enemies of Christ exploiting the sheep to serve their own bellies, WOE to them!

As says the Bible

[Mark Miwerds]

Originally Posted by Mikelee81

It's interesting that in the Book of Malachi where God rebukes for cheating tithes He does so in a way that's not bringing down some heavy judgment for not tithing but just the opposite..

you not receiving blessings for not tithing..

I will tithe unto God in an act of Worship. I am not keeping track of 10 percent here or there. I just want to give thankfully as is instructed.

Those that are living off the gospel are to be paid by those working in the world.

1 Corinthians 9:8-10
8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
9 For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.


Paul nails this concept in his writings. No man going to war provides for his own resources (food, weapons, etc).

Now obviously some people are exploiting this concept. The servants of Christ that are doing it for the Kingdom of God, Blessings to them. The enemies of Christ exploiting the sheep to serve their own bellies, WOE to them!

As says the Bible

If you read the whole Chapter with the mind of the Spirit of God, you will notice that Paul was not speaking of pastors at all when he said "they who preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel." Notice:

1 Corinthians 9:1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?
1 Corinthians 9:2 If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.

Paul was speaking of himself being an Apostle. One sent by God to do a work in the world.

1 Corinthians 9:3 Mine answer to them that do examine me is this,

Paul reveals that some have been questioning his authority and rights as an Apostle.

1 Corinthians 9:4 Have we not power to eat and to drink?
1 Corinthians 9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
1 Corinthians 9:6 Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?
1 Corinthians 9:7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?

Notice the questions that lead up to the verses you quoted? Paul is not speaking of pastors who are in a stationary position in a Church. Rather, he is speaking of those who are uprooted from the Church and sent out into the world. Do we, not have power to eat and drink? ... to lead about a sister, a wife "as well as other Apostles". Who goeth...

Paul was speaking of what the Apostles, being separated from the local Church and sent into the world had a right to, not what pastors have rights to.

Acts 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

The Bible tells us that Elders of the Church were to work with their hands as Paul himself did, that they might support the weak.

Acts 20:33 I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.
Acts 20:34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.
Acts 20:35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

A careful study of the Word of God concerning them that preach the Gospel will reveal that the preaching of the Gospel is ALWAYS done by traveling ministers; such as evangelists, missionaries and Apostles.

In Romans 10, we find the most compelling evidence to this fact when we read:

Romans 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

One who is to preach the Gospel is one who is sent out into the world. In the Gospels, Jesus went about preaching the Gospel. the Gospel is proclaimed in all towns as they travel. Search it out. Be as the Bereans. Every instance where "preach" and "Gospel" are in the same verse, the preaching is not done by one who is stationary. It is done by those who are travelling.

As is the case in 1 Corinthians 9. And Paul futher tells the reader that he is speaking of himself in the chapter when he says, "I have not used any of these".

Isn't hte Gospel needed in the local assembly of believers? Ask yourself, when your baby began cutting teeth, and later had all of his teeth in his head, did you continue to feed him Pablum? or did you begin to give him more solid foods?

The local Body of Believers received the Gospel and believed it. That is how they became part of the Body. Now, they need solid food. They need the sincere milk and the full meat of the Word... not the Gospel. If they are saved, they already know the Gospel. Equip them in the Word, then send them out to minister the Gospel to the lost as Paul and Barnabas were equipped and sent.