Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Are you an ancient Israelite living under the Law of Moses? I'm not. Romans 10:4 says that Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness. You go ahead and live by the Law....just make sure you're keeping all of it.
You are misunderstanding Romans 10:4...It is not the end as in finished...The Torah, if one reads it, culminated in the coming of the Messiah, not the termination of Torah...For Yeshua Himself stated:
Mat 5:18 Truly I say to you, Until the heaven and the earth pass away, in no way shall one iota or one point pass away from the Lawuntil all comes to pass.
Has Heaven and earth passed away AND has all come to pass yet?...Remember your Logic Table... 1 + 0 = 0, 0 + 1 = 0, 1 + 1 = 1...
Mat 5:19 Therefore, whoever relaxes one of these commandments, the least, and shall teach men so, he shall be called least in the kingdom of Heaven. But whoever does and teaches them, this one shall be called great in the kingdom of Heaven.
What are these Commandments that Yeshua is warning folks about relaxing AND teaching others to relax?...Could it be.......The Law, perhaps???...
Mat 5:20 For I say to you, If your righteousness shall not exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of God, never!
Now, just what was the righteousness of the Scribes and the Pharasees?...Could it be that they were following the Torah, not from Faith, but attempting to establish their own Righteousness?...As Jacob said, Faith without works is dead Faith...On the flip side, Works without Faith are dead works...Remember, AND + AND = And...AND + OR = NUL...Passive PLUS Active equal Righteousness, they were not possessing both, they were possessing one or the other, as in the cases of the schools of Hilell and Sammian(?)...One gave a broader view and the other gave a tighter view, on Torah...
On the topic of "not speak truthfully on behalf of the real Jesus Christ"
No actually the Bible says that He did not.
Jesus Christ proclaimed Himself to be Lord of the Sabbath in Matthew 12:1-8, Mark 2:23-28 and Luke 6:1-5.
On a Sabbath Jesus and His disciples were performing unlawful labor, when the Pharisees confronted Him about it. Jesus explained how King David ate of the shew bread which was unlawful. "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."
Jesus claimed to be the Lord, He and his disciples were entitled to do as they wish on the Sabbath.
You need to study regarding Lawful work on HaShabbat...Like, Circumcision take presidence over HaShabbat, for HaShem commanded that and infant shall be circumcised on the eigth day after their birth, so in order to keep His Commandment if that eigth day falls on HaShabbat, the Bris is performed on HaShabbat...Even the Levites were at Labor 7 days a week if their roles required it according to the Commandments of Hashem...
Sunday-worshippers keep forgetting that what they are embracing is a million times worse than any error they may find in the the Seventh-Day Sabbath, the day they are rejecting. Even Catholic/Protestant writers will point out that there is no sanctification of Sunday found in the Bible and that the Seventh-Day Sabbath is day that is sanctified in the scriptures.
They do not keep forgetting, it is just what they have been taught for over 1500 years, for even Papias went to Rome to argue against changing HaShabbat to Sunday, obviously they did not listen to him...
If God's Spiritual Law were truly written in your heart, you would be keeping God's Seventh-Day Sabbath and would be blameless concerning the 4th Commandment before God.
Exo 31:12 And Jehovah spoke to Moses, saying,
Exo 31:13 And you speak to the sons of Israel, saying, Keeping you shall keep My sabbaths; for it is a sign between Me and you for your generation; to know that I am Jehovah your sanctifier.
Exo 31:14 And you shall keep the Sabbath, for it is holy for you; the profaners of it dying shall die; for everyone doing work in it, that soul shall be cut off from the midst of his people.
Exo 31:15 Work may be done six days, and on the seventh day is a sabbath of rest, holy to Jehovah; everyone doing work on the Sabbath day dying shall die.
Exo 31:16 And the sons of Israel shall observe the Sabbath, to do the Sabbath for their generations; it is a never ending covenant.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign forever between Me and the sons of Israel; for in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.
Exo 31:18 And when He finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave to Moses the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written by the finger of God.
Isa 56:1 So says Jehovah: Keep justice and do righteousness, for My salvation is near to come, and My righteousness to be revealed.
Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; keeping sabbath, from defiling it; and keeping his hand from doing every evil.
Isa 56:3 And do not let the son of the foreigner speak, he who joins himself to Jehovah, saying, Separating Jehovah separates me from His people; and not do let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dried tree.
Isa 56:4 For so says Jehovah to the eunuchs who keep My sabbaths and choose things I am pleased with, and take hold of My covenant:
Isa 56:5 I, even I will give to them in My house and in My walls a hand and a name better than sons and than daughters; I will give them an everlasting name which shall not be cut off.
Isa 56:6 And the sons of the alien who join themselves on Jehovah to serve Him, and to love the name of Jehovah, to be His servants, everyone who keeps from defiling the sabbath, and takes hold of My covenant:
Isa 56:7 even them I will bring to My holy mount and make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted on My altar, for My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the peoples,
Isa 56:8 states the Lord Jehovah, who gathers the outcasts of Israel; I will yet gather beside him his gathered ones.
And here's the "Biggie":
Lev 16:31 It is a sabbath of rest to you, and you shall humble yourself. It is a never ending statute.
The Sabbath is Saturday an according to Exodus 31:16-17 an "eternal covenant" not withstanding all of the Jewish feasts . Mosaic law died at the hands of Constantine when he banished all are Jewish roots, feasts and application that directly parallels with every aspect of christianity . You have beentaken for a ride my friends. Grace is independent from the applicable post Christ resurrection . Paul was simply chastising many Jews and gentiles from clinging to the law and not "getting Jesus" the Law and Jesus were abused and not in equalibrium. Paul lived by the Law,but was trying to combine the two eternal's (defined as never ending! ) law and Jesus. By the way folks not observing the sabbath no longer need to be put to death nor is sacrificing animals to the Lord as Jesus was the last sacrifice. The ten commandments and Jewish feasts are intergral and essential parts of the "real" christian walk still those that don't see this are still good christians just missing the whole story. Pope Sylvester mandated the change of the original 7 days which had Saturday (hebrew) sabbath to Sunday . The church believed Jesus rose on Sunday but He rose from the dead on the cusp of His beloved sabbath (Saturday) and was discovered risen on Sunday. Furthermore, it's interesting that the pagan emperor Constantine created his Sun Day or mandatory worship of the sun god. Yes I know Constantine was instrumental of opening the door for christians around 325ad but his influence in forming Nicea lead to infant baptism,papacy and catholicism which, detoured from christianity forming a religion that manufactured many deities, sacraments,mediators and a whole bunch ceremonies . In fairness they remained christian as a result of believing in the Godhead and the son of man. As for the rest Oy Vey!
True Christians are those who have come out of this world and do not take part in this world's governments, sports, entertainment, etc.
Where would I find this distinction between true Christians and the rest of us in the Bible? And where would I find that I've lost salvation as a consequence of not being one of these true Christians?
You are misunderstanding Romans 10:4...It is not the end as in finished...The Torah, if one reads it, culminated in the coming of the Messiah, not the termination of Torah...For Yeshua Himself stated:
Mat 5:18 Truly I say to you, Until the heaven and the earth pass away, in no way shall one iota or one point pass away from the Lawuntil all comes to pass.
Has Heaven and earth passed away AND has all come to pass yet?...Remember your Logic Table... 1 + 0 = 0, 0 + 1 = 0, 1 + 1 = 1...
Mat 5:19 Therefore, whoever relaxes one of these commandments, the least, and shall teach men so, he shall be called least in the kingdom of Heaven. But whoever does and teaches them, this one shall be called great in the kingdom of Heaven.
What are these Commandments that Yeshua is warning folks about relaxing AND teaching others to relax?...Could it be.......The Law, perhaps???...
Mat 5:20 For I say to you, If your righteousness shall not exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of God, never!
Now, just what was the righteousness of the Scribes and the Pharasees?...Could it be that they were following the Torah, not from Faith, but attempting to establish their own Righteousness?...As Jacob said, Faith without works is dead Faith...On the flip side, Works without Faith are dead works...Remember, AND + AND = And...AND + OR = NUL...Passive PLUS Active equal Righteousness, they were not possessing both, they were possessing one or the other, as in the cases of the schools of Hilell and Sammian(?)...One gave a broader view and the other gave a tighter view, on Torah...
I've recently discovered the error of my ways and am currently working on it...It has always been in my heart to do so, however I was told that it would be attempting to earn my Salvation through works...It is like joining the Masons, going through one's degrees and taking the instruction to heart and applying it makes one a better person along the way...Then there are those that enter in and do all the degrees and learn the instruction but do not take it to heart and therefore they have not been made better men, from the outside they look just like the ones that have taken it to heart, but there is a difference inside...It is similar to the Pharasees, Nicodemus and the Pharasees that wrongly accused Yeshua were alike from all outward appearances, but on the inside Nicodemus was different from the others, he was waiting for the Messiah and recognized Him when he saw Him, the others were working to earn their Salvation...Both were doing the outside works, but what was inside them that made them different, what was their motivation...Was it merely to please HaShem out of love for Him or was it to please HaShem in order to merit one's own Salvation?...It all hinges on one's motivation for keeping the Torah...
When my daughter was little she did things I told her to do, not because she feared my wrath if she did not, but because she knew in her tiny little heart that it would please me and that is what she wanted to do, please me and make me happy and proud, not because she feared me...Now she is coming on 15!...Wants to be her own person...If she does do what I tell her it is because she does not want to hear it again...Ahh, the joys of the teen years...
The Sabbath is Saturday an according to Exodus 31:16-17 an "eternal covenant" not withstanding all of the Jewish feasts . Mosaic law died at the hands of Constantine when he banished all are Jewish roots, feasts and application that directly parallels with every aspect of christianity . You have beentaken for a ride my friends. Grace is independent from the applicable post Christ resurrection . Paul was simply chastising many Jews and gentiles from clinging to the law and not "getting Jesus" the Law and Jesus were abused and not in equalibrium. Paul lived by the Law,but was trying to combine the two eternal's (defined as never ending! ) law and Jesus. By the way folks not observing the sabbath no longer need to be put to death nor is sacrificing animals to the Lord as Jesus was the last sacrifice. The ten commandments and Jewish feasts are intergral and essential parts of the "real" christian walk still those that don't see this are still good christians just missing the whole story. Pope Sylvester mandated the change of the original 7 days which had Saturday (hebrew) sabbath to Sunday . The church believed Jesus rose on Sunday but He rose from the dead on the cusp of His beloved sabbath (Saturday) and was discovered risen on Sunday. Furthermore, it's interesting that the pagan emperor Constantine created his Sun Day or mandatory worship of the sun god. Yes I know Constantine was instrumental of opening the door for christians around 325ad but his influence in forming Nicea lead to infant baptism,papacy and catholicism which, detoured from christianity forming a religion that manufactured many deities, sacraments,mediators and a whole bunch ceremonies . In fairness they remained christian as a result of believing in the Godhead and the son of man. As for the rest Oy Vey!
I have read that first century Christianity was seen by the non-believers as another sect of Judaism and the only difference was that they believed in Messiah...It seems that it also was recorded in history that the Gentiles attended Synagogue in order to learn what HaShem desired of them, to learn more about HaShem...That the Synagogues of that time were a mix of majority believing Jews and Gentiles...People seem to misunderstand that it was always the plan of HaShem to bring the Gospel to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel through Messiah, the Walking Torah, and this recorded throughout the Tenakh...The problem here is that once people come to know Yeshua, they are told that, while the Tenakh, etal., is a good book, it is more essential that they study the Letters of the New Covenant, and this is just what they do, swim in the NC, barely dipping a toe into the Tenakh, etal...In order to understand the NC, one should understand the Tenakh...It is not the Jews that are to be grafted into the Gentiles church, but it is the Gentiles that are to be grafted into the Faith of Israel...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
