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It is the topic of the discussion. If it makes you uncomfortable, then you need you ask yourself why that is the case.
I have already answered that point: it is a transparent rhetorical device to make it look like it is God that we reject rather than the doctrines of men concerning the Bible.
Please answer my question as to what the difference is between our view as I stated it and our view as you state it.
I have already answered that point: it is a transparent rhetorical device to make it look like it is God that we reject rather than the doctrines of men concerning the Bible.
But Jesus did not slam the OT as "doctrines of men". Why do you, if Jesus did not?
When you reject God as described in the OT, you reject Him in the process. You reject Him, and replace Him with your own version.
Quote:
Please answer my question as to what the difference is between our view as I stated it and our view as you state it
The difference is that you do in fact reject and replace God of the OT, but you refuse to admit it.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 04-22-2013 at 05:28 PM..
The claim: "Universalists reject the God of the OT as described in the Bible"
True or false?
The comments on this thread proves it is TRUE.
How you justify the rejection is another story.
Do you actually believe that the scriptures teach throughout that things are hidden and revealed ?. You cannot read the sciptures like a newspaper and then tell us you know all the facts about God.
QED . . . just as I predicted. The Christ's entire life and teaching contradicts the OT descriptions of God's nature and motives . . . but Finn pretends that you are contradicting "Jesus and the rest of the Bible" as if they agreed with each other. It is a fruitless exercise to expect any direct answers in response to direct questions. I swear Finn has perfected the "Texas side-step."
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ
I don't think that's true, I think Paul's interpretation of same contradicts the OT. According to the four books of the Gospel, Jesus led a very correct Jewish life.
OF course it is NOT about rejecting the entire OT! It is what tells us of Christ. It is the descriptions of God and His motives and actions that are contradicted by Christ's entire life and teaching. Every time reference is made to God and what His motives are or what He is doing and why . . . they are WRONG! They believed in a jealous, savage War God who demanded blood sacrifices to appease His wrath and that is how they described Him. They did not recognize the God of love that Christ revealed and that is why they scourged and killed him. I am afraid that our brothers and sisters in Christ who continue to believe in the War God are corrupting their love of God with misunderstanding of Him. They should believe Christ and have faith in His revelations of our God's true nature as Love.
I have already answered that point: it is a transparent rhetorical device to make it look like it is God that we reject rather than the doctrines of men concerning the Bible.
Please answer my question as to what the difference is between our view as I stated it and our view as you state it.
Of cause it is. I would like Mr Jarber and Mr Wayne respond to this post of Pleroo's
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
Jesus didn't say to his disciples that if they'd read the [OT] scripture they would know the Father. He said:
"If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him....he that hath seen me hath seen the Father..."
He said from henceforth you know the Father, not that they knew him before by reading their scripture.
And this comment of nateswift's
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
In other words, why if you believe the Bible do you not seem to believe that it is the Spirit that will guide us into all truth?
Rejecting ignorant savage descriptions of God is NOT the same as rejecting God, Finn. What about that do you NOT understand? We do NOT reject God just because our ignorant savage ancestors described Him incorrectly under the veil of ignorance. We recognize that Christ had to come to correct their misunderstanding and reveal the TRUE NATURE of God unambiguously. We believe in the God Christ revealed . . . and reject the ignorant savage descriptions of our ancestors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
It is now clear that you do not comprehend the point. The question is not whether of not you reject God, it iswhether or not you reject God as described in the OT.
You keep trying to twist it to your view of things, Finn (as always). The phrase "God as described in the OT" places "God" first so as to give the impression that the rejection you talk about is of God. But the rejection you talk about is of the DESCRIPTIONS . . . NOT God. The phrase should be the "descriptions of God in the OT". . . placing the "descriptions" first to remove any false impressions that you wish to make. Then your question properly phrased should be whether or not you reject the descriptions of God in the OT? God would not be pleased with your intent to deceive and misrepresent the witness and testimony of the brethren to suit YOUR misrepresentations, Finn.
Did Jesus dismiss the account of Sodom and Gomorrah as "doctrines of men"? No, He referred to their fate as a historical fact.
Jesus also referred to the creation account (Mark 10:6), and to Noah's flood (Matthew 24:37-39; Luke 17:26,27) as historical accounts. Some try to excuse that away by saying that Jesus was only catering to the beliefs of the day, but that is a sad and impotent argument used to deny what Jesus said. Jesus did not contradict the Old Testament.
Mr Jarber, Mr Wayne and Mr 555, would you agree that Jesus Christ is the exact representation of who God is,that him being the Life that is the Light to all men, by His actual Life,described to us what God truly is like ?.
He said if you have seen me you have seen the Father, what does this mean to the 3 of you ?.
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