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You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbour, and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies.
If you love those who love you, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (Matthew 5:43-44 & 46-48)
I do not agree with your claim that Jesus contradicted the OT. Clear enough?
More of your Finn misdirection and unclear wording. Of course Jesus didn't contradict the OT . . . He fulfilled it. But he COMPLETELY contradicted what our ignorant ancient ancestors BELIEVED ABOUT God, His nature and His motives. They simply could NOT get past their conditioning from ages past that God was a jealous, vengeful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifices.
More of your Finn misdirection and unclear wording. Of course Jesus didn't contradict the OT . . . He fulfilled it. But he COMPLETELY contradicted what our ignorant ancient ancestors BELIEVED ABOUT God, His nature and His motives. They simply could NOT get past their conditioning from ages past that God was a jealous, vengeful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifices.
You are correct until you extend that to Jesus' redemptive work on the cross. There is no authority to back up such a claim. Both the OT and the NT are clear that Jesus died for our sins, as pre-ordained by the Father.
More of your Finn misdirection and unclear wording. Of course Jesus didn't contradict the OT . . . He fulfilled it. But he COMPLETELY contradicted what our ignorant ancient ancestors BELIEVED ABOUT God, His nature and His motives. They simply could NOT get past their conditioning from ages past that God was a jealous, vengeful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifices.
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Originally Posted by jimmiej
You are correct until you extend that to Jesus' redemptive work on the cross. There is no authority to back up such a claim. Both the OT and the NT are clear that Jesus died for our sins, as pre-ordained by the Father.
He died because of our sins and because we were unable to do what He did because of our sinful nature. Christ was needed from the beginning because we were incapable of what He did . . . but one of us humans HAD to or our species would have eternally been separated from God. There was no payment or punishment required . . . just substituting for our deficiencies. The barbaric punishment was inflicted by our ignorant savage ancestors because "they knew not what they were doing" and could not accept the God He revealed.
More of your Finn misdirection and unclear wording. Of course Jesus didn't contradict the OT . . . He fulfilled it. But he COMPLETELY contradicted what our ignorant ancient ancestors BELIEVED ABOUT God, His nature and His motives.
I am sure there were people who misunderstood stuff, just like there is today, but don't you think people like Moses, Jeromiah, Daniel etc understood God? Maybe they were not as ignorant as you think. Maybe they were more in touch with God that the modern day savage/ignorant/arrogant internet posters .
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They simply could NOT get past their conditioning from ages past that God was a jealous, vengeful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifices.
God's justice demanded the blood, and it was satisfied by the blood of His own son. Perhaps it is you who has failed to understand God.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 04-25-2013 at 05:38 AM..
He died because of our sins and because we were unable to do what He did because of our sinful nature. Christ was needed from the beginning because we were incapable of what He did . . . but one of us humans HAD to or our species would have eternally been separated from God. There was no payment or punishment required . . . just substituting for our deficiencies. The barbaric punishment was inflicted by our ignorant savage ancestors because "they knew not what they were doing" and could not accept the God He revealed.
Your basic premise is NOT scriptural. Jesus redemptive work was required to satisfy God's holiness.
Hebrews 2
17 Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
2 Corinthians 5
21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Romans 5
9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
Your basic premise is NOT scriptural. Jesus redemptive work was required to satisfy God's holiness.
Hebrews 2
17 Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
2 Corinthians 5
21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Romans 5
9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
For me i see it this way; As a result of Sin man was destined to die from the garden of Eden story.Death became our greatest enemy. No human species could face death and conquer him. So Christ out of his love for us came to face our greatest enemy for us so that having defeated death now we can live. What greater way to express love, can there be other than this; that someone should fight your biggest battle for you and even suffer loss so that you will be free.
This does not mean that God needed blood sacrifice for his anger to be appeased, rather Christ had to die so as to defeat out enemy #1 for us.
If blood sacrifice could appease the anger/wrath of God why did Christ have to die.I mean the animal sacrifices were doing just that-if all that God needs to be appeased is blood flowing.
What makes God different from the other gods-baal, molech etc that required/require blood sacrifice too? How could he be a God of love then?
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