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It is of course true that prophecy is always fulfilled. But Jesus was not speaking of prophecy when He made the statement that Scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35). Jesus had just stated that He and the Father were one. Not that they were the same Person, but that they were one in essense and in unity of purpose. The Jews accused Him of blasphemy by making Himself equal with God and picked up stones to stone Him. But Jesus appealed to the authority of Scripture to refute their charge of blasphemy by referring to the Law which here referred not only to the first five books of the the Old Testament, but to the entire Old Testament because He was quoting from Psalm 82 which is not a part of the Torah.
In Psalm 82 God passes judgment on men who He calls 'gods', and 'sons of the Most High'. Psalm 82 refers to God as the true judge, and of men appointed by God as judges but who were failing to provide true judgement for God. Jesus' argument was that if the Old Testament called their judges 'gods' then they could not logically accuse Him of blasphemy for calling Himself God's Son since He had been sent into the world by God.
Jesus added, 'and the Scripture cannot be broken.', thereby affirming the authority and inerrancy of the Bible with reference to the Old Testament.
See the above comment.
Jesus did not say that there were no righteous men in the Old Testament. What He said was...
Luke 7:28 "I say to you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he."
The meaning being that even the least in the kingdom of God will have greater spiritual capacity then even John the baptist himself. Those in the future kingdom will be under the New Covenant and have the Law of God written on their hearts. This was not the case with the Jews under the Old Covenant.
You keep calling the Bible 'dead letters' and 'stale manna'. You are in error. As shown above Jesus appealed to the authority of the Scriptures. All Scripture is God - breathed.
2 Tim. 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed (theopneustos) and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
And no, Jesus did not break the commands of Scripture. Jesus fulfilled the Law completely. He understood the spirit of the Law and did not misapply it.
I agree that the Bible was God-inspired. However, this fact does not require for it to be what God wants for you and me. God inspired the words "eye for an eye," but that's not what Jesus commands us to do. God inspired to rest on the sabbath, but Jesus showed that being rational is more important: it's better to save a life even if it means working on the sabbath. Putting things in perspective. And it got him killed. He gave people the sense of balance that even non-Jews could understand and rejoice in. But the Jews were so hard-stuck in their religion that they couldn't rejoice in good news when they heard it.
Personally, I believe that Jesus and the Father were/are One. However, that is because I consider Jesus Christ not as a person, but as Spirit. Sure, he took a body of flesh. But Jesus was with the Father in the beginning, and obviously had no body of flesh. The flesh is quite useless and profitless. Jesus' fleshly body served its purpose and he has no more need for it. And neither will we. Aisi.
I think God knows more than anyone here and this is what God gave to the Apostle Paul for us to know the truth and not be deceived by the enemy!
Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
The Bible says that if we are in Christ, we have his righteousness. It's imputed to us---meaning we are credited with his righteousness. It's not just what I say---it's what Paul said. We are seen as perfectly righteous to God--because that's what Christ is.
He's given us all things that pertain to life and godliness including righteousness for a purpose, that we take hold of it and become par takers of His divine nature. It is not a cover up of all that's wrong with us through missing the mark, it is the power of God to change us from the inside out. First clean the inside of the cup and dish.
I agree that the Bible was God-inspired. However, this fact does not require for it to be what God wants for you and me. God inspired the words "eye for an eye," but that's not what Jesus commands us to do.
People misunderstand Lex Talionis - the principle of an eye for an eye. It was not justifying personal revenge. The taking of personal revenge was forbidden under the Law as stated in Lev. 19:18. Lex Talionis was given to provide Israel's judicial system with a means of providing a fair system of justice which provided protection for the guilty in that the punishment was not to exceed the crime. At the same time the punishment was not to be less than the crime warranted. The purpose of the law of 'an eye for an eye' was to limit retaliation and to punish fairly. But the intent of the law could be misinterpreted by those who were inclined to to so and used to justify personal revenge. It was that misinterpretation of the law of which Christ spoke. And also that a believer need not necessarily avail himself of his rights under the law. In Matthew 5:39-41 Jesus spoke of relatively minor offenses in which a disciple might not take the offender to court.
Quote:
God inspired to rest on the sabbath, but Jesus showed that being rational is more important: it's better to save a life even if it means working on the sabbath. Putting things in perspective. And it got him killed. He gave people the sense of balance that even non-Jews could understand and rejoice in. But the Jews were so hard-stuck in their religion that they couldn't rejoice in good news when they heard it.
Jesus came into the world for the purpose of going to the Cross in order to pay the penalty for the sins of mankind. At the right time in history, in accordance with the Father's plan, He came into the world and used the breakdown of both Jewish and Roman law to get Himself on the Cross.
Quote:
Personally, I believe that Jesus and the Father were/are One. However, that is because I consider Jesus Christ not as a person, but as Spirit. Sure, he took a body of flesh. But Jesus was with the Father in the beginning, and obviously had no body of flesh. The flesh is quite useless and profitless. Jesus' fleshly body served its purpose and he has no more need for it. And neither will we. Aisi.
Blessings,
brian
While it may be your belief that Jesus has no body, that is not what the Bible teaches.
As God Jesus is Spirit, but as man He has a body. Jesus was bodily resurrected in a physical body which is spiritual in the sense that it is incorruptable and immortal. He is in resurrected body forever.
Last edited by Michael Way; 04-29-2013 at 02:25 PM..
İn bible it states very clearly that god is one . Here are some examples
"Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord."
[The Bible, Mark 12:29]
"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord"
[The Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4]
"I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour."
[The Bible, Isaiah 43:11]
"I am Lord, and there is none else, there is no God besides me."
[The Bible, Isaiah 45:5]
"I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me."
[The Bible, Isaiah 46:9]
Here is what Jesus says, he denies being God:
"My Father is greater than I."
[John 14:28]
"My Father is greater than all."
[John 10:29]
"…I cast out devils by the Spirit of God…."
[Mathew 12:28]
"…I with the finger of God cast out devils…."
[Luke 11:20]
"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
[John 5:30]
"Jesus answered them and said, "My doctrine is not Mine, but His
who sent Me."
[John 7:16]
"He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word
which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me."
[John 14:24]
"For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who
sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak."
[John 12:49]
"And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of
me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
[John 5:37]
Note: Father does not mean a literal father but here refers to God as the Bible says, “Blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called sons of God”.
Son of God is a figure of speech which many other Prophets were labeled with.
In Psalms 2:7 David is the begotten Son of God.
Jacob is God's firstborn son (Exodus 4:22)
Solomon is God's son (2 Samuel 7:13-14)
Ephraim is God's firstborn son (Jeremiah 31:9) [how many firstborns?]
Adam is the son of God (Luke 3:38)
There are many other begotten (?) sons mentioned in the Bible.
God blessed Jesus with authorities, and God can take them away.
These people worship him of their own accord, if he would have asked them to stop they probably wouldn't have any way, the man had the power to do almost any thing, who wouldn't think you where God if you had those powers? But It clearly says it was by the Ancient of Days authority that Jesus had those powers and that any thing God gives could be taken away. It is also said that the demons have powers, and the Anti-Christ will trick us with powers exactly like the ones Jesus used except that outwardly the Anti-Christ will look good while inwardly he will be evil, after tricking people he will establish the Jewish temple where it once stood and reside there claiming to be God. Of course right now the Rock of the Mount is in it's place and I don't think Muslims would let that happen willingly so this Anti-Christ will pretend to be Christian and use Christians as a means to destroy the Rock of The Mount he will also captivate Muslims and Jews into thinking he is God in the flesh, after creating a false peace he will bear his fangs.
I am not going to put a spin on those verses I will simple tell you that the scriptures are not perfect because they are man made and man is not perfect, God is Perfect.
Just because those call him the son or he calls himself the son does not make him God. That makes him a begotten son of God.
May the grace of God be upon you always.
I didn't think you'd take it seriously. I called you on your challenge, and you ignored my answers.
Once you reject Jesus teachings in the New Testament, you have rejected Jesus. Jesus is Lord is the earliest Christian creed. This is an acknowledgment that Jesus is God almighty, the Son of God. Therefore you have also rejected the Father and since Jesus promised the HOly Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, it means that since you reject the doctrine of the Trinity you have rejected God. Jesus said, No one comes the Father except by Me. YOu can figure out the rest.
As has been repeated MANY times, because someone rejects a company of men's INTERPRETATIONS about someone's teachings, that in no way follows to say one rejects the Son of God, which Jesus called Himself.
At one point the Medes and Persians ruled much of the known world. When Cyrus was king, or emperor, or whatever, he could not possibly be in every province he ruled over at the same time. All rulers give a certain amount of authority and power to trusted men to rule in their stead in different locations and the locals there called these men 'lords'. In England they still have figurehead lords, barons, dukes, etc. And at one time they were bowed to and deferred to. I believe even now they assume a certain amount of respect from the 'commoners' silly as that is in today's world. Judgments were taken before them and the 'lord' ruled with the authority of the higher power, given to him for as long as the king deemed him faithful and just to his own standards. A son was considered royalty and given all deference. So logically, Christians calling Christ Lord does not follow that they believed him to be the actual power in the universe.
To me, because Jesus said that his FATHER gave him authority and power and that of himself he could do nothing, that puts him in a place beneath His Father. Saying that the 'human' part of Jesus was inferior but the divine part was not makes no sense. That sounds like a body was walking around with a human soul also controlled by another being, the spirit of God who took over most of the time. Is that what people believe happens to us? We are still in the new resurrected body but yet we just sort of sleepwalk around while God actually speaks through it and directs it to go where he wants? I think it's still very much me being constantly aware, yet I can communicate with God at any time and find Him. I will always be me, unique and separate from the Father, and YET lovingly He will guide me. That is true at times now, but unlike Jesus, I do not feel God's spirit every minute of the day for I still get my feelings hurt, I still get upset over stupid things and I do not always do the right thing.
Did not Jesus pray for us to be one with the Father as He, Jesus, was one with the Father?
John 17:22
King James Version (KJV)
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
So are we going to be God if Jesus is God? Will we have the same power and authority and majesty as God? Some think so, but I don't. Some think we can do these things now if we only have faith. I would love to see it with my own eyes. I've not seen a man calm a storm or make a few loaves of bread feed hundreds of people with baskets left over. We have an EARNEST of the spirit with gives us faith. If people were walking around daily performing the miracles Jesus did I don't think we would need much faith to trust God in every circumstance. When we receive the fullness of the spirit, then I believe we will perform these deeds and it will be for the Father's glory, not our own. Jesus even said we will do things greater than He did when on the earth. But that doesn't mean He did everything He was capable of, only what the Father planned for Him to accomplish. As we will do nothing EVER that is not within the Father's will.
It does not bother me if some choose to think of Jesus as God. But He cannot be equal with the Father, the spirit from which all is derived. I think there is much we don't understand tho, and Christ said he was the SON OF GOD, and never outright declared we were to worship Him as the Father. A son who has been granted authority to act in His Father's name is, for all intents and purposes, to be given due respect. Since we cannot see the actual Father, I believe it is pleasing to Him for us to worship the son through whom He revealed Himself to us. It does bother me somewhat for people to tell me in what WAY I must think of Jesus in order to be a child of God, loved by Him. I am accepted by God in His son and that was EVER and ALWAYS His plan.
İn bible it states very clearly that god is one . Here are some examples
"Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord."
[The Bible, Mark 12:29]
"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord"
[The Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4]
"I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour."
[The Bible, Isaiah 43:11]
"I am Lord, and there is none else, there is no God besides me."
[The Bible, Isaiah 45:5]
"I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me."
[The Bible, Isaiah 46:9]
Here is what Jesus says, he denies being God:
"My Father is greater than I."
[John 14:28]
"My Father is greater than all."
[John 10:29]
"…I cast out devils by the Spirit of God…."
[Mathew 12:28]
"…I with the finger of God cast out devils…."
[Luke 11:20]
"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
[John 5:30]
"Jesus answered them and said, "My doctrine is not Mine, but His
who sent Me."
[John 7:16]
"He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word
which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me."
[John 14:24]
"For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who
sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak."
[John 12:49]
"And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of
me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
[John 5:37].
Jesus doesn't deny being God. Jesus spoke those from the perspective from his humanity Philippians 2:6-8
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross!
____________________________________________
Colossians 2:9
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
First you ask for Scriptural evidence that Jesus is God. And then when given that evidence you say that the Scriptures are not perfect and dismiss the evidence. Jesus is the Creator of all that has come into existence. He is explicitly called God in John 1:1 and Philippians 2:5-6.
You need to learn something about the Kenosis and the Hypostatic Union of Jesus Christ. As God Jesus has eternally existed and it was He who brought all things into being. As God He had all the authority of God. But He set aside His privileges as God when He became a man. That does not mean that He stopped being God, but only that He refrained from the independent use of His deity in order to benefit Himself during His First Advent. As a result of humbling Himself and being obedient to the Father's plan, He in His humanity was made higher than the angels and given authority. He was exalted. Again, that is with reference to His humanity. As God Jesus had always had divine authority. And by the way, the angels are commanded by God the Father to worship Jesus according to Hebrews 1:6.
And yes, the Scriptures in the original autographs are inerrant and perfect. God is the divine author of the Scriptures. Jesus said the Scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35); that is, Scripture cannot be annulled or set aside when its teaching is inconvenient. Some of the Bible is dictation though most of it is not. However, the human writers were so superintended by the Holy Spirit that they recorded in their own vocabulary and style, God's message to man. Indeed the human writers of Scripture were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
2 Peter 1:20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, 21] for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men carried along by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
2 Tim. 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed (theopneustos; with reference to divine inspiration and point of origin) and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
Or would you limit God by saying that He was not capable of having set in writing through the use of human agency exactly what He wanted set down in writing?
First the Bible it's self warns of human error both intentional and non-intentional.
“The prophets prophesy lies in my name. I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spoke unto them; they prophesy unto you a false vision.” -Jeremiah 14:14
“The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means, and my people love to have it so.”-Jeremiah 5:31
“I beseech you, brethren, mark them who cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which you have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ but their own body, and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the innocent.”-Romans 16:17-18
“Many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an anti-Christ.”-2 John 7
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
ruin and misery mark their ways,
and the way of peace they do not know.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”-Romans 3:10-18
"All have fallen short of the glory of the lord."
"For they are a rebellious people,
lying children,
children unwilling to hear
the instruction of the Lord;
who say to the seers, “Do not see,”
and to the prophets, “Do not prophesy to us what is right;
speak to us smooth things,
prophesy illusions,
leave the way, turn aside from the path,
let us hear no more about the Holy One of Israel.”
Therefore thus says the Holy One of Israel,
“Because you despise this word
and trust in oppression and perverseness
and rely on them,
therefore this iniquity shall be to you
like a breach in a high wall, bulging out, and about to collapse,
whose breaking comes suddenly, in an instant;
and its breaking is like that of a potter’s vessel
that is smashed so ruthlessly
that among its fragments not a shard is found
with which to take fire from the hearth,
or to dip up water out of the cistern.”-Isaiah 30:9-14
You see the Prophet Isaiah foresaw the decline of Christianity into a state of lawless immorality, founded upon deceit and lies.
"And Christ said, Many will say to me on that day; did we not drive out demons in your name, and in your name win many converts and perform miracles, and I will tell them plainly, away from me you evil doers I do not know you."
Second if all things perceived of as Word are correct then why not throw another 100 books in the Bible every year? People pick and chose what is most comforting to hear and they throw out the things they don't like. So will say God doesn't talk any more or Prophesy no longer happens but I do not believe that and we are so set in our ways, we are often blinded by the devils light. It is by the fruit of their was that you will know them, if a person spreads hate then you can be sure they are not from God.
First the Bible it's self warns of human error both intentional and non-intentional.
“The prophets prophesy lies in my name. I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spoke unto them; they prophesy unto you a false vision.” -Jeremiah 14:14
“The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means, and my people love to have it so.”-Jeremiah 5:31
“I beseech you, brethren, mark them who cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which you have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ but their own body, and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the innocent.”-Romans 16:17-18
“Many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an anti-Christ.”-2 John 7
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
ruin and misery mark their ways,
and the way of peace they do not know.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”-Romans 3:10-18
"All have fallen short of the glory of the lord."
"For they are a rebellious people,
lying children,
children unwilling to hear
the instruction of the Lord;
who say to the seers, “Do not see,”
and to the prophets, “Do not prophesy to us what is right;
speak to us smooth things,
prophesy illusions,
leave the way, turn aside from the path,
let us hear no more about the Holy One of Israel.”
Therefore thus says the Holy One of Israel,
“Because you despise this word
and trust in oppression and perverseness
and rely on them,
therefore this iniquity shall be to you
like a breach in a high wall, bulging out, and about to collapse,
whose breaking comes suddenly, in an instant;
and its breaking is like that of a potter’s vessel
that is smashed so ruthlessly
that among its fragments not a shard is found
with which to take fire from the hearth,
or to dip up water out of the cistern.”-Isaiah 30:9-14
You see the Prophet Isaiah foresaw the decline of Christianity into a state of lawless immorality, founded upon deceit and lies.
"And Christ said, Many will say to me on that day; did we not drive out demons in your name, and in your name win many converts and perform miracles, and I will tell them plainly, away from me you evil doers I do not know you."
Second if all things perceived of as Word are correct then why not throw another 100 books in the Bible every year? People pick and chose what is most comforting to hear and they throw out the things they don't like. So will say God doesn't talk any more or Prophesy no longer happens but I do not believe that and we are so set in our ways, we are often blinded by the devils light. It is by the fruit of their was that you will know them, if a person spreads hate then you can be sure they are not from God.
So what you're saying is that the Bible can't be believed because it was written by men? OK....I reject all of what you've written...because you're obviously just a human being...and thus prone to error.
I'll instead stick with what the Bible says. It calls Jesus God. It says we are all sinful human beings that need a savior.
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