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Mike, I appreciate the fact that you backed up your argument strictly by Scripture. Since this is the only place in Scripture where Paul talks about this event, I think that is why it's hard for some to believe or accept it as possibly being true.
It is also referred to, early on, in the Book of Revelation.
(But I will leave it to the reader to find it.)
I suspect there are several other oblique references to it,
but this is the only overt reference I know of.
It is also referred to, early on, in the Book of Revelation.
(But I will leave it to the reader to find it.)
I suspect there are several other oblique references to it,
but this is the only overt reference I know of.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and John 14:1-3 are parallel passages. Both refer to the rapture of the church. The following article discusses this. Read if interested.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and John 14:1-3 are parallel passages. Both refer to the rapture of the church. The following article discusses this. Read if interested.
Among many others, I am certain.
I haven't bothered to catalog all of the references
to the Rapture, since I am already certain of it.
What is interesting is that the pre-trib view espoused by Darby was a majority view in the first two centuries, but then fell out of favor until the prophesy of Ezekiel 37 began to germinate. Peter prophesied that we would meet people like those on this forum.
Mens predictions about the timing of the rapture always fail. Why? Because they are rooted in pre trib theology. Any prediction that puts the rapture at any time before the beast is revealed will be false.
The primary flaw in pre-trib reasoning is that they don't understand what the purpose of the rapture is. The rapture is NOT intended to be an escape chute for pampered American Christians who can't imagine themselves having to suffer.
The primary flaw in pre-trib reasoning is that they don't understand what the purpose of the rapture is. The rapture is NOT intended to be an escape chute for pampered American Christians who can't imagine themselves having to suffer.
Only the weak minded would think that American Christians won't have to suffer. The cause of that suffering is where Pre-Trib Christians differ from post trib. Pre-Trib Christians should expect to suffer at the hand of the unbelieving world. The fatal flaw of post trib is: it teaches that God will pour out His wrath on the Bride of Jesus.
but isn't it saying it is the last of it, the end of the end will not come until the man of sin is revealed.. ........ so if the man of sin is revealed before all the rest of the church is "raptured"/ resurrected and we know the man of sin kills so many in the churches , and the believers who are alive at that time..at least 50% of the virgins are left outside where there is weaping........which I think means most of the virgins/ church and all else saved/ has already been killed before that last " rapture" and the whole worlds resurrection ( see stars in Judah in fall 2019) ..
and I suspect the church will not be raptured or the world not resurrected and these appear to happen together , until The Lord is well established in Israel. in order to receive more people and secure their peace in many nations . I could tell you dreams and why I draw these conclusions/ make these guesses and some word studies into ZEC ZEP MICah etc... .. but we who study are not dropping and double and triple confirming his concepts in his word and in his sky and in his history and in his feasts and nis /??...
I believe in REV 3 and REV 12 .. is a picture of him hiding His church.. and with it I see no picture of a resurrection in there ... only a birthing of his kingdom and a divine protection..
and then or during then satan being thrown to earth....and warring with the world and all the virgins../church left outside
thus the man of sin revealed .....
that can be soon as ALI CIONE/ ZION>> WAS JUST CROWNED and she just gave birth and The Lord has not ascended yet to the Father who is to start the fight .. . then later in 2019/20 during maybe the complete resurrection and with it the rapture which is last ingathering of all believers who had died or maybe lived through it
... just to look at the stars you know there is war in the heavenly after 2020.and something wicked happens this Chanukah like satan Gets kicked out of heaven.. .. we have to apply his history and his word and thus his feasts into these pictures in the sky and again back into his word ,, they all have to agree.
I am pretty sure " the Rapture" everyone waits for isn't what they think it is..and it isn't the picture given to REV 3 AND REV 12 .
JUST BE READY TO GO TO THE BRIDEGROOM ON TABERNACLES.
WHERE EVER THE MOUNTAINS/ THE GATHERINGS OF HIS FIRE IS.. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE
"WINGS" TO GO THERE , THEN DRIVE THERE OR BE LEFT OUTSIDE.
You are right that the rapture will not take place until the man of lawlessness is revealed(2 Thes 2:1-3). The man of lawlessness can't be revealed until he commits the abomination of desolation. If we accept that what Antiocus Ephanies did, slaughtered a pig in the holy place, as an allegory, then the temple must be rebuilt.
Dan 9:17 tell us the anti-Christ will make a covenant with the people for 1 week(7 years) but will break it after 3 1/2 years. IMO at some point in history a world leader will bring world peace, especially between the Jews and the Palestinians. He will break it after he has committed "the abomination of desolation. He does not have to kill a pig in the Holy of Holies. He will enter the Holy of Holies an proclaim to be God(Isa 14:13-14). For anyone not the high priest to enter the Holy of Holies would be an abomination to religious Jews.
Some think the anti-Christ will be Jew. I have a reference somewhere but don't want to take the time right now to find it. The numerical value of his name must add up to 666. As you know Hebrew letters have a numerical value. So we have 2 ways to identify Satan.
The last 3 1/2 years will be the great tribulation.
I am positive some of what I believe is not 100% accurate. Much of end time prophecies will only b e evident when they happen. I do believe my comments about identifying Satan during this time is accurate, and that tells us when to head for the mountains.
I don't see any reference to the rapture in Rev 3 or 12. In Rev 12, the woman, the church, is sent to a place where God will protect her during the great tribulation. The church will not be given literal wings, but a means of travel. "Also notice this will be for time, times and 1/2 a time, 3 1/2 years.
PS: I found it. Because of Gen 49:17 some think the anti-christ will not only be a Jew, he will be from the tribe of Dan.
Those who hold to a post-tribulational rapture position have to deal with the issue that if the rapture takes place at the end of the Tribulation it leaves no one to go into the Millennial kingdom in their mortal bodies to repopulate the earth. The judgments of the Tribulation will result in the deaths of much of the earth's population which will then have to be restored during the Millennial kingdom.
It's important to realize that the rapture of the church and the resurrection of the church take place together.
In the pre-tribulational view of the rapture, when the rapture occurs the souls of all church-age believers who have died from the beginning of the church-age return with Jesus from heaven and they are resurrected. Then the bodies of all living believers are transformed into bodies of immortality and incorruptibility and they are caught up into the air to meet the Lord (1 Thess. 4:13-17). Then the entire church is taken up into heaven where she undergoes the judgment seat of Christ (1 Cor. 3:13-15; 2 Cor. 5:10). The judgment seat of Christ is how the bride (the church) is made ready for the marriage of the Lamb (Rev. 19:7-8).
Once the Tribulation begins on the earth at some point after the church has been raptured, and there could be an interval of a few years between the rapture and the beginning of the Tribulation, there will be many people who come to believe in Christ Jesus. Many of these will then be martyred and are referred to in Rev. 7:9-14. But many who come to believe in Christ during the Tribulation will survive to the end of the Tribulation and will go into the Millennial kingdom in their mortal bodies. All unbelievers will be removed from the earth and ordered into the eternal fire as per Matthew 25:41. Matthew 25:32-45 refers to the judgment of the nations which will take place in the valley of Jehoshaphat according to Joel 3:1-3.
For anyone who doubts that there will be mortals in the Millennial kingdom, in the Millennial kingdom the life span of mortal man will be increased so that according to Isa. 65:20,
Isa. 65:20 No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.
In the Millennial kingdom a man of one hundred will be considered a youth.
But in the post-tribulational view of the rapture, the church goes through the Tribulation and anyone who believes in Christ during the Tribulation becomes part of the church and everyone gets resurrected when Christ returns leaving no one in their mortal bodies to go into the Millennial kingdom. And the rapture is simply all believers being taken into the air and immediately making a U-turn and returning to the ground.
The fact that a post-tribulational rapture leaves no one to go into the Millennial kingdom in their mortal bodies rules out the post-tribulational rapture view.
You are right that the rapture will not take place until the man of lawlessness is revealed(2 Thes 2:1-3). The man of lawlessness can't be revealed until he commits the abomination of desolation. If we accept that what Antiocus Ephanies did, slaughtered a pig in the holy place, as an allegory, then the temple must be rebuilt.
Dan 9:17 tell us the anti-Christ will make a covenant with the people for 1 week(7 years) but will break it after 3 1/2 years. IMO at some point in history a world leader will bring world peace, especially between the Jews and the Palestinians. He will break it after he has committed "the abomination of desolation. He does not have to kill a pig in the Holy of Holies. He will enter the Holy of Holies an proclaim to be God(Isa 14:13-14). For anyone not the high priest to enter the Holy of Holies would be an abomination to religious Jews.
Some think the anti-Christ will be Jew. I have a reference somewhere but don't want to take the time right now to find it. The numerical value of his name must add up to 666. As you know Hebrew letters have a numerical value. So we have 2 ways to identify Satan.
The last 3 1/2 years will be the great tribulation.
I am positive some of what I believe is not 100% accurate. Much of end time prophecies will only b e evident when they happen. I do believe my comments about identifying Satan during this time is accurate, and that tells us when to head for the mountains.
I don't see any reference to the rapture in Rev 3 or 12. In Rev 12, the woman, the church, is sent to a place where God will protect her during the great tribulation. The church will not be given literal wings, but a means of travel. "Also notice this will be for time, times and 1/2 a time, 3 1/2 years.
PS: I found it. Because of Gen 49:17 some think the anti-christ will not only be a Jew, he will be from the tribe of Dan.
I report, you decide.
NO probably your right about the church wings and I really come to believe it is about travel to the mountains( of light?) surrounded by clouds.. light of the world raised up and everyone will see them . and he will be in them . he will come from them for the last judgement . but there will be women who will receive wings of the spirit this maybe something related to " philips" translations from place to place , maybe , who knows but there will be many extraordinary gifts / rewards for his faithful )
but just do a study on wings in general for some things we won't be able to explain until it happens. and in almost all of those wings are in prophesy which will happen and have not even sort of happened IRL yet todate.. but it will.
You are right that the rapture will not take place until the man of lawlessness is revealed(2 Thes 2:1-3). The man of lawlessness can't be revealed until he commits the abomination of desolation. If we accept that what Antiocus Ephanies did, slaughtered a pig in the holy place, as an allegory, then the temple must be rebuilt.
Dan 9:17 tell us the anti-Christ will make a covenant with the people for 1 week(7 years) but will break it after 3 1/2 years. IMO at some point in history a world leader will bring world peace, especially between the Jews and the Palestinians. He will break it after he has committed "the abomination of desolation. He does not have to kill a pig in the Holy of Holies. He will enter the Holy of Holies an proclaim to be God(Isa 14:13-14). For anyone not the high priest to enter the Holy of Holies would be an abomination to religious Jews.
Some think the anti-Christ will be Jew. I have a reference somewhere but don't want to take the time right now to find it. The numerical value of his name must add up to 666. As you know Hebrew letters have a numerical value. So we have 2 ways to identify Satan.
The last 3 1/2 years will be the great tribulation.
I am positive some of what I believe is not 100% accurate. Much of end time prophecies will only b e evident when they happen. I do believe my comments about identifying Satan during this time is accurate, and that tells us when to head for the mountains.
I don't see any reference to the rapture in Rev 3 or 12. In Rev 12, the woman, the church, is sent to a place where God will protect her during the great tribulation. The church will not be given literal wings, but a means of travel. "Also notice this will be for time, times and 1/2 a time, 3 1/2 years.
PS: I found it. Because of Gen 49:17 some think the anti-christ will not only be a Jew, he will be from the tribe of Dan.
I report, you decide.
Rumors?
"Hippolytus of Rome originated this theory that the Antichrist comes from Dan. Others have taken hold of this as a reason why Dan is excluded from the 144,000. Hippolytus said:"
You are right that the rapture will not take place until the man of lawlessness is revealed(2 Thes 2:1-3). The man of lawlessness can't be revealed until he commits the abomination of desolation. If we accept that what Antiocus Ephanies did, slaughtered a pig in the holy place, as an allegory, then the temple must be rebuilt.
Dan 9:17 tell us the anti-Christ will make a covenant with the people for 1 week(7 years) but will break it after 3 1/2 years. IMO at some point in history a world leader will bring world peace, especially between the Jews and the Palestinians. He will break it after he has committed "the abomination of desolation. He does not have to kill a pig in the Holy of Holies. He will enter the Holy of Holies an proclaim to be God(Isa 14:13-14). For anyone not the high priest to enter the Holy of Holies would be an abomination to religious Jews.
Some think the anti-Christ will be Jew. I have a reference somewhere but don't want to take the time right now to find it. The numerical value of his name must add up to 666. As you know Hebrew letters have a numerical value. So we have 2 ways to identify Satan.
The last 3 1/2 years will be the great tribulation.
I am positive some of what I believe is not 100% accurate. Much of end time prophecies will only b e evident when they happen. I do believe my comments about identifying Satan during this time is accurate, and that tells us when to head for the mountains.
I don't see any reference to the rapture in Rev 3 or 12. In Rev 12, the woman, the church, is sent to a place where God will protect her during the great tribulation. The church will not be given literal wings, but a means of travel. "Also notice this will be for time, times and 1/2 a time, 3 1/2 years.
PS: I found it. Because of Gen 49:17 some think the anti-christ will not only be a Jew, he will be from the tribe of Dan.
I report, you decide.
Christians seem to be lawless [ie without Torah]...
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