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Ok, I see where your objection is to the added notation "and live righteously," and not to the point that he was making that when we seek first the Kingdom of God these things will be added to us. Your cogent statement is, "That is a works-based Gospel. It's not the Gospel. It's Law. It's placing the burden on us to 'live righteously'" I'm wondering how "seeking" by your terms is NOT a work? It is no less so than "being eager to do good works." This is not about "salvation," it's about God supplying our needs so that your objection really does not apply here in the first place, but if it did, how is "being eager to do good works" not a part of what Jesus wanted us to be about? How is it not a part of "seeking the kingdom?"
Honestly, reform theologists are so hung up on the idea that anyone would think that doing good is a requirement for salvation that I actually see some of them actively discouraging people from participating in such things.
By "seeking his righteousness" we are not actively "doing" anything. We are placing our faith and trust in Christ--and his work on the cross for our redemption. Instead, of we are trying to please God by doing good things and "living righteously" as the pastor said, you are in effect a Roman Catholic. Moderator cut: deleted
Last edited by june 7th; 05-31-2013 at 07:56 PM..
Reason: Rude portions of posts are deleted.
By "seeking his righteousness" we are not actively "doing" anything. We are placing our faith and trust in Christ--and his work on the cross for our redemption.
Sounds like biblical Christianity but it isn't. Bible language.... Yes I will give you that.
There are multitudes doing good things without seeking anything in return. It sounds like you are saying unless you believe Jesus saved you from hell, you cannot possibly do good works without the motive of earning something in return.
I need to say this. I can see you sneering as you wrote this. You are a Pastor? You sound really mean and nasty. Maybe you aren't but you really sound it.
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I'd never go to your church. If it was the last church on earth. You sound like a horrible man.
Katzpur is a kind lady.
Yes, she is. I have no problem with her personally. She seems very nice. But she is the one that said my version of Christianity was not Biblical.
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I'll take whatever she is learning at her LDS church, over whatever hate you are spewing at your "reformed bible uncompressed word of god calvinst church".
You do realize that the founder of her church declared every other church and religion on earth to be apostate, right? That includes my church. So spare me.
Last edited by june 7th; 05-31-2013 at 07:59 PM..
Reason: Rude portions of posts are deleted.
You can't do enough to please God, no. We've been over this many times.
You know very well I never said anything about pleasing God to attain anything in my response to your post. I too have many times pointed this out to you.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
By "seeking his righteousness" we are not actively "doing" anything. We are placing our faith and trust in Christ--and his work on the cross for our redemption.
Sounds like biblical Christianity but it isn't. Bible language.... Yes I will give you that.
There are multitudes doing good things without seeking anything in return. It sounds like you are saying unless you believe Jesus saved you from hell, you cannot possibly do good works without the motive of earning something in return.
One thing has become very clear from reading your posts. You don't follow Jesus. I've not read one single thing you have ever posted that reflects that you actually know anything about Jesus or how he wanted us to live.
The utter power of Jesus and his message has been lost on you. Pity. Jesus preached love and understanding and healing and coming together. He healed the sick. He fed the hungry. He reached out to the poor. He walked among people no one wanted. He touched people no one would touch. And he did this because He loved us. He LOVED us. It's such an overwhelming feeling to know you are loved no matter what you do. It's just awesome. We are so small and the power of His love is so great. I pray someday you find the real joy of being a Christian who is loved by Christ. I truly do.
You sound pretty hateful and judgmental. Do you know what Jesus taught? He called the Pharisees a brood of vipers and whitewashed sepulcres. I'm sorry if it offends you that I actually teach what he said. I'm sorry if it offends you that I actually tell people they're wrong (yet, you seem to have no problem calling me out on it).
You know very well I never said anything about pleasing God to attain anything in my response to your post. I too have many times pointed this out to you.
Sounds like biblical Christianity but it isn't. Bible language.... Yes I will give you that.
There are multitudes doing good things without seeking anything in return. It sounds like you are saying unless you believe Jesus saved you from hell, you cannot possibly do good works without the motive of earning something in return.
It's a Biblical concept. It's called Total Depravity. We're incapable of doing good works in our own natures.
It's when Jesus saves us and regenerates us that we are able to do good works--out of grattitude to him.
It's a Biblical concept. It's called Total Depravity. We're incapable of doing good works in our own natures.
It's when Jesus saves us and regenerates us that we are able to do good works--out of grattitude to him.
It's NOT a biblical concept. It's a Calvinist doctrine. I'll explain more in a second.
Just a little back story - John Calvin was a French-Swiss 15th C reformer and tyrant. He is responsible for some of they most heinous crimes in Christian history, including burning people at the stake, beheading a child and throwing a man in jail for naming his son "Claude."
Along he way, Calvin decided that he was perfect! Yes, you read correctly. perfect! And God's Free Gift of Salvation was only available to a chosen few! Yes folks, only some people, "The Elect" are 'Predestined for Salvation".
He also made up a little acronym by which his terrified followers could remember his Heresy.
It's called TULIP
T - "total depravity"
U- "Unconditional Election"
L- "limited atonement" - the idea that Jesus only died for the sins of a limited number of people.!!!
I - irresistible Grace
P- perseverance of the saints. This is CALVINISM folks. And it's no where to be found in the Bible.
It's a heresy that was devised by a man who was narcissistic, egotistical and self righteous.
It's NOT a biblical concept. It's a Calvinist doctrine. I'll explain more in a second.
Just a little back story - John Calvin was a French-Swiss 15th C reformer and tyrant. He is responsible for some of they most heinous crimes in Christian history, including burning people at the stake, beheading a child and throwing a man in jail for naming his son "Claude."
Along he way, Calvin decided that he was perfect! Yes, you read correctly. perfect! And God's Free Gift of Salvation was only available to a chosen few! Yes folks, only some people, "The Elect" are 'Predestined for Salvation".
He also made up a little acronym by which his terrified followers could remember his Heresy.
It's called TULIP
T - "total depravity"
U- "Unconditional Election"
L- "limited atonement" - the idea that Jesus only died for the sins of a limited number of people.!!!
I - irresistible Grace
P- perseverance of the saints. This is CALVINISM folks. And it's no where to be found in the Bible.
It's a heresy that was devised by a man who was narcissistic, egotistical and self righteous.
"Two lips is when one talks out both sides of their mouth; it's a double standard."
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