Jesus' end times prophecy was in error. (believers, disciples, Jesus Christ)

[ancient warrior]

Originally Posted by garya123

All three do not say His generation would see His return. He said that great tribulation for both Judea and the whole world would be ushered in such as never been nor ever will be and it would last for "days". His generation saw it come into being when Titus of Rome killed multitudes and cast out the other Jews. Check the Word to see how long "days" could be concerning prophesy. We are in the "last days" and have been since the time of Christ. He said that of that day and hour of His return no one would know but only the Father.

RESPONSE:

Go back and read the earlier posts in which all six prophecies of the secong coming are listed. This, generation, some still alive, the high priest, the apostles, and (Paul) those who wwere alice.

Do you realize the difference between not knowing the day and hour (if one wasn't God) and not knowing the generation?

I too "don't know the day and hour," but some of those here in Oregon will see rain the end of the year.

[ancient warrior]

Originally Posted by garya123

Jesus did show up on the day of Pentecost with the Clouds of Glory. Cloud is a simile for Glory because in a cloud is the waters for life and in similar fashion the Clouds [one for each soul] of Glory have the Waters of Eternal life in them! On the last day He is coming with greater Clouds of Glory and the Saints will be transfigured in the Clouds that dwell in the "Air" of Heaven's Glory and we will breath the pure "Air" of Heaven. Cloud and caught up in the air are similes for the real thing. Only by the Spirit are these things appreciated and rejoiced in. Glory literally in spiritual terms means the Beauty of His Character/Righteousness

This is what began to happen on the day of Pentecost.
IS 4:5 "And the Lord will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies [the Churches], a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defense."

RESPONSE:

What an imagination you have!

But it was the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, not Christ.

[garya123]

Originally Posted by ancient warrior

RESPONSE:

Go back and read the earlier posts in which all six prophecies of the secong coming are listed. This, generation, some still alive, the high priest, the apostles, and (Paul) those who wwere alice.

Do you realize the difference between not knowing the day and hour (if one wasn't God) and not knowing the generation?

I too "don't know the day and hour," but some of those here in Oregon will see rain the end of the year.

I don't think you are seeing the difference between when He came in the Clouds of Glory [as He alluded to the Priest] on the day of Pentecost [not in bodily form but in Spirit] because He was made a Living Spirit of Eternal Life vs. when He spoke of His return on the last day. And by the way, His return on the last day will be in even greater Power and Glory, not in bodily form either. We are to worship God in Spirit and in Truth not a physical form of Him which was only temporary.

The Scriptures are talking of two different events which is why some get it wrong and think the Scriptures contradict. Something's are indeed hard to understand but the Word of God stands true.

[garya123]

Originally Posted by ancient warrior

RESPONSE:

What an imagination you have!

But it was the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, not Christ.

No, no great imagination. I just know how by the Spirit to understand the Scriptures on this point.

2COR 5:16 " Therefor from now on we know no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet from now on we know Him no more according to the flesh."

2COR 3:17 "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." We know Him only by the Spirit.

1COR 15:45 "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [Christ] was made a quickening Spirit."

[kids in america_]

Originally Posted by ancient warrior

RESPONSE:

It should also be emphasized that Matthew's "This generation" is reported in Mark 9:1 as "And he said to them, “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come." And in Paul's 1 Thes 4:17 "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

All three prophecies are claiming that Jesus' Second Coming will be within his generation involving those then alive.

Sort of like Strong' Lexicn G1074:

The whole multitude of men living at the same time

and, an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years

That begs the question. How do you know Mark 9 and Matthew 24 are referring to Jesus’ “second coming?”

[ancient warrior]

Originally Posted by garya123

I don't think you are seeing the difference between when He came in the Clouds of Glory [as He alluded to the Priest] on the day of Pentecost [not in bodily form but in Spirit] because He was made a Living Spirit of Eternal Life vs. when He spoke of His return on the last day. And by the way, His return on the last day will be in even greater Power and Glory, not in bodily form either. We are to worship God in Spirit and in Truth not a physical form of Him which was only temporary.

The Scriptures are talking of two different events which is why some get it wrong and think the Scriptures contradict. Something's are indeed hard to understand but the Word of God stands true.

RESPONSE:

Jesus clearly was speaking of the Second Coming. There are at least six prophecies of this. Of course, rather than admit that there was an unfulfilled prophecy, those claiming bibical inerrancy try the most incorrect but imaginative explanations rather then admit that Jesus (or his writers) had prophecized the Secong Coming while his immediate followers were still alive, but it did not occur.

The Pentacost claim, Acts 2, says that there were tongues of fire, not clouds.

Incidentally, some of those who claim that Jesus is flying around in a UFO (check articles on the web) interpret the "coming in the clouds" passages to support their point of view also.

However:

1 Thes 4:15-17 "According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Nothing in Acts 2 about Jesus immediate followers meeting him in the air, is there?

[garya123]

Originally Posted by ancient warrior

RESPONSE:

The Pentacost claim, Acts 2, says that there were tongues of fire, not clouds.

Again you fail to understand Scripture. Truth is like a diamond with many facets. Events in Scripture have multiple simile/ metaphor attached to them with each having it's own beautiful message for the saints to feast on by the Spirit. They are not for those who pick apart and mock God's word so why should I explain anything more to you. The beauties of Truth are hid from you. What a great loss to you!

Originally Posted by DeannaC

I've noticed that the entire prophecy is not being used, only one sentence of it. What seems to be overlooked (forgive me if I've missed it) is Matthew 24: 32-34 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The "fig tree" is Israel. She "putteth forth" her leaves (became a nation again) the "generation" that is referred to was not the generation of Jesus time, or he'd never spoken of "another time".

The "generation" could be 70 or 100 years. It's the generation that saw the return of Israel to a nation, that shall not pass.

So, keep looking up.

No it's not:

A parable is taking some known and common thing and puting it beside something else that is unknown in order to shed light on that which is being taught.

Jesus uses a fig tree to reinforce and explain that when they see 'all these things' then they should known that His return is near - even at the doors.

The paralell is:

When the branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves you know that summer is near.

This is like:

When you see all these things (v.4-28 not Israel's Rebirth) you know that it [the return of the Lord v.29-31] is near - even at the doors.

The 'all these things' is likened to the fig tree blossoming not Israel's Rebirth.

Other than the fig tree being a type of Israel elsewhere in Scripture what justification (esp. in this context) is there for this parable being about Israel's Rebirth? No - nothing - Israel and it's rebirth was not a known thing and so was not something that would shed light on his teaching using a parable.

Note that in Luke's account he says 'and all the trees' not just the fig tree. He also adds that the kingdom of God would be near.

And, btw, if anyone is on the "Christian" thread to call Christ, our Lord and Savior, a liar, then please, go find somewhere else to ply your trade. Time is short. The Body has enough to do, encouraging one another, praying for one another, learning from one another through the Spirit and study of scripture.

Hello, this is NOT the 'Christian' thread - it is the CHRISTIANITY thread. As such this is not your personal fellowship thread void of facts that you don't like to hear about Christ or the Bible.

I can't wait for all the so-called 'generations' to run their course, 40, 50, 60 has come and gone, next-up 70 (2018) then 80 - I don't know why they have a 90 or a 100 but once those go then one can expect all kinds of fancy interpretation like a 'PROPHETIC GENERATION.'

You know kinda like the multiple comings, resurrections, and multiple fulfillment of prophecies.

Originally Posted by DeannaC

........

For someone who acts as if they know what they are talkng about you sure assume alot.

1) Why do you think that 'all these things' could not happen within a generation or two of Christ speaking these words? All these things refer to things begining in verse 4 not some specific rebirth that is not even mentioned in the text.

2) Why do you split those things (like persecution, the temple being rebuilt, speading of the gospel, false Christs, etc.) into things that happened in that generation and things that will happen in a furture generation - the all these things refer to - well - all those things.

3) Read Paul, he says the gospel was preached in the entire world. Read Acts, all the mentioned did happen in that generation. It is your misunderstanding of what is being spoken about because of your bias - nothing more.

You think the all-wise, all-knowing, all-powerful God could have avoided this ambiguity by just having Jesus say 'I tell you the truth the generation that sees the rebirth of the nation of Israel will not pass away until all these things take place....' or similar language.