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it is not only for our sins but the sins of the world, again I do not have access to my bible software so you will have to look it up unless someone else knows the verse I am speaking of. if not I will give you the verse when I get home in the am.
Yes, destroyed, lost, perish. The point is that it is the same word as in this passage:
"For the son of man is come to seek and to save that which was LOST (appolymi)." (Lk 19:10)
Do you read annihilation into that verse as well? Did the son of man come to save those who were annihilated?
As far as Ps. 92 ... I believe that the OT most often needs to be read as metaphorical. To me, "the wicked" refers to the old man within each of us. That is what is being destroyed. And the upright in Prov 2 is, of course, the New Man, the Christ, that is being, or will be, raised within us.
Yes, we should 'put on' the new person or personality but Not all will end up willing to do that.
Luke 19 v 15 is also in connection to Luke 15 vs 3-7 about the one lost sheep being searched for.
Ezekiel 34 v 16 B mentions the destruction of some.
Proverbs 2 vs 21,22 mentions the wicked being cut off from the earth. Wicked would not be here - Psalm 92 v 7
Wasn't Jesus referring to Psalm 37 vs 11,29, 20, 38-40 when Jesus promised that only the humble meek would inherit the earth while the wicked perish. The wicked will be no more. - verse 10 No mention of those wicked being repenting ones.
YES
and you are ADDDING to scripture by saying Jesus is the saviour of all men who put their faith in Him.
What it actually says is Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, especially of THOSE THAT BELIEVE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
No, he is not adding. The Bible repeats that fact some 200 times. whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life
No one is denying that believers will not perish . . . you just mistakenly think that "especially" means ONLY the believers. But it doesn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
2nd Pet 3:9 says "not desiring that any should perish". You assume that "perish" means "be annihilated", right? The word translated as "perish" is appolymi and it is the same word used in this passage:
"For the son of man is come to seek and to save that which was LOST (appolymi)."
Do you also read annihilation into that verse as well? Did the son of man come to save those who were annihilated?
As long as you believe that what people are being saved from is annihilation, you will have to ask that question.
As far as Ps. 92 ... I believe that the OT most often needs to be read as metaphorical. To me, "the wicked" refers to the old man within each of us. That is what is being destroyed. And the upright in Prov 2 is, of course, the New Man, the Christ, that is being, or will be, raised within us.
This is so important, Pleroo. People do not seem to realize that every moment of their lives is separate and distinct because we are constantly changing. The you of ten years ago is not the same as the you of today . . . yet it exists as part of the composite Spirit that you are producing throughout your life. Those parts of you that were wicked will not survive your death. They will be purged out as dross in the consuming fire of God's pure love. Those things done in accord with the Sermon on the Mount and 1 Cor 13 will survive. That is why it is important to try to fill as much of your life with "love of God and each other" . . . 30-fold, 60-fold or 100-fold.
Twin wants to straddle the fence between Arminianism and Calvinism, trettep. He wants to maintain, like Arminianism, that people are responsible for rejecting God, even though he believes, like Calvinism, that if God doesn't create faith within a person, they have no choice but to reject.
He sees the inconsistency, but cannot acknowledge it as such because he believes both ideas are scriptural.
only that there is no inconsistency ... for that is what scripture teaches people are responsible for rejecting God
John 12:48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.
John 3:36.... whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
Romans 2:8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.
God does the choosing
Ephesians 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight
Matthew 22:14 “For many are invited, but few are chosen.”
Romans 8:33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.
God creates faith by sanctification by the Holy Spirit (3rd person of the Trinity)
1 Peter 1:1-3 To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:
2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord,
because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit through belief in the truth.
Jesus is author of faith
Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;
Last edited by twin.spin; 12-28-2013 at 09:15 PM..
Reason: spacing gremlins
Yes, we should 'put on' the new person or personality but Not all will end up willing to do that.
Why do you assume this?
Quote:
Luke 19 v 15 is also in connection to Luke 15 vs 3-7 about the one lost sheep being searched for.
Okay. So why do you read annihilation into the 2 Pet passage, but not into the Luke passage which uses the same word, appolymi?
"He came to seek and to save the "ἀπόλλυμι".
"He is not willing that any should "ἀπόλλυμιi", but that ALL should come to repentance."
The ἀπόλλυμι are being sought and brought to repentance and saved. They aren't being annihilated.
Quote:
Ezekiel 34 v 16 B mentions the destruction of some.
Proverbs 2 vs 21,22 mentions the wicked being cut off from the earth. Wicked would not be here - Psalm 92 v 7
Wasn't Jesus referring to Psalm 37 vs 11,29, 20, 38-40 when Jesus promised that only the humble meek would inherit the earth while the wicked perish. The wicked will be no more. - verse 10 No mention of those wicked being repenting ones.
Right, the wicked one (the old man, the god of this world, the enemy, the false accuser) will be no more. Only the New Man will survive.
Twin wants to straddle the fence between Arminianism and Calvinism, trettep. He wants to maintain, like Arminianism, that people are responsible for rejecting God, even though he believes, like Calvinism, that if God doesn't create faith within a person, they have no choice but to reject.
He sees the inconsistency, but cannot acknowledge it as such because he believes both ideas are scriptural.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
only that there is no inconsistency ... for that is what scripture teaches people are responsible for rejecting God
John 12:48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.
John 3:36.... whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
Romans 2:8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.
God does the choosing
Ephesians 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight
Matthew 22:14 “For many are invited, but few are chosen.”
Romans 8:33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.
God creates faith by sanctification by the Holy Spirit (3rd person of the Trinity)
1 Peter 1:1-3 To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:
2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord,
because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit through belief in the truth.
Jesus is author of faith
Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;
Give up yet, Pleroo? Unreasoning credulity cannot be reasoned with. Inconsistent points of view can be retained by the sheer power of belief . . . nothing else. It is considered a sign of faith in God.
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