Noah's Ark Has Been Found? (Epistles, doctrines, myth, doctrine)
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The Catholic Church teaches...Well, I've said before, I was raised a Catholic, yet you, without knowing me, told me I never could have been raised that way. I know more than enough to know that the Catholic Church is just a church organization, and just like all other organizations, it holds no authority in Godly things. Jesus is the head of the true church, and HE is the mediator. When I want authority on truth, I go to him, not men or organizations.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
These are the first lines of the Nicene Creed created by the RCC:
We believe in one God, the Father Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is seen and unseen.
That Genesis is allegoric does not mean there was no creation.
That Noah and the flood are mythologic does not mean it never rains. Nothing changes!
That fact is, that, scientists DO ignore this fact! Putting faith in a supposition is dangerous. There is no conspiracy about ignoring these things. This is properly called blindness. Blindness of this sort can only be cured by light.
I couldn't agree more. The only thing I would point out is that you apply this to 'scientists'. As Ken Ham showed, trotting one one scientist after another, being a scientist does not mean that you deny Christianity or even bible - literalism.
Though most of course do, because being a scientist (1) trains one in critical thinking, constant questioning and following the facts. This would probably mean that many scientists who are religious still do accept the evidence indicating evolution and the development of the cosmos (the expanding Universe was discovered by a Catholic Priest). They do not have a problem with seeing this as the way God works.
Those who are Creationists and have qualifications in a relevant field (obviously, having a doctorate in Etymology and ancient literature still leaves one no better informed than the bloke running the Wiener -stall when it comes to Geology, palaeontology or evolution -theory) seem to be able to hive off their expertise into a separate part of their mind. Like the bloke who did the Giraffe -nerve and the one who argued for a Young Earth Geology, and yet both wrote papers that contradicted their Creationist view of those subjects.
No doubt they will argue that this is what they have to do in order to get papers published, and that is true and right, because the science does not support the claims of creationism and thus any paper that uses the claims of creationism to make its case is going to be rejected, not because it is creationist work, but because it contradicts the science.
I know that science is Used to support creationism, but the fact is that (as surely has been shown in this thread) the evidence does not support it, and creationism can only make its case by claiming "facts" that are not there any more, rejecting the Facts of science in favour of a Different way things might have been - for which there is no evidence, and of course, appealing to the Bible to prove the Bible.
This is not science - this is faith -based denial of science. And a faith, not in God or Jesus, but in the factual literal truth of Genesis. Let us be clear about this. This is not about God or Christ: it is about Bible -literalism.
(1) as distinct from an Engineer who claims the 'scientist' label. Check Creationist "scientists" and you may find that an amazing number are in fact Engineers. What this means is that their mindset is not geared to getting at the facts, but at finding a way of solving a problem.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 02-09-2014 at 10:30 AM..
I couldn't agree more. The only thing I would point out is that you apply this to 'scientists'. As Ken Ham showed, trotting one one scientist after another, being a scientist does not mean that you deny Christianity or even bible - literalism.
Though most of course do, because being a scientist (1) trains one in critical thinking, constant questioning and following the facts. This would probably mean that many scientists who are religious still do accept the evidence indicating evolution and the development of the cosmos (the expanding Universe was discovered by a Catholic Priest). They do not have a problem with seeing this as the way God works.
Those who are Creationists and have qualifications in a relevant field (obviously, having a doctorate in Etymology and ancient literature still leaves one no better informed than the bloke running the Wiener -stall when it comes to Geology, palaeontology or evolution -theory) seem to be able to hive off their expertise into a separate part of their mind. Like the bloke who did the Giraffe -nerve and the one who argued for a Young Earth Geology, and yet both wrote papers that contradicted their Creationist view of those subjects.
No doubt they will argue that this is what they have to do in order to get papers published, and that is true and right, because the science does not support the claims of creationism and thus any paper that uses the claims of creationism to make its case is going to be rejected, not because it is creationist work, but because it contradicts the science.
I know that science is Used to support creationism, but the fact is that (as surely has been shown in this thread) the evidence does not support it, and creationism can only make its case by claiming "facts" that are not there any more, rejecting the Facts of science in favour of a Different way things might have been - for which there is no evidence, and of course, appealing to the Bible to prove the Bible.
This is not science - this is faith -based denial of science. And a faith, not in God or Jesus, but in the factual literal truth of Genesis. Let us be clear about this. This is not about God or Christ: it is about Bible -literalism.
(1) as distinct from an Engineer who claims the 'scientist' label. Check Creationist "scientists" and you may find that an amazing number are in fact Engineers. What this means is that their mindset is not geared to getting at the facts, but at finding a way of solving a problem.
Engineers see things in B&W, true or false, 1 or 0...
I cannot believe you were once a Catholic. I often wonder if some people are wired to be bible literalists rather than Catholic.
The Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church clearly tells Catholics that Genesis is likely a poem. And that changes nothing.
Did you not see the link to a Catholic web site declaring Noah's flood and ark to be historic fact I posted in this thread?
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I often wonder if some modern evangelicals are at the same primitive or lesser level than the Catholic Church was in medieval times. But, even then--------when they declared Galileo a heretic they were still pushing education and science. What you propose is a retrograde movement to the dark ages.
Keep wondering. After all, that's all you've got.
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Lastly, there is no way in hell that scientists of this era would ignore the fact that men could live to more than 900 years before the flood. If that was really true we would have discovered the what and why of their longevity. A global secret conspiracy of that magnitude is simply implausible.
Floods come and go and people write about them. Our barbaric ancestors generally believed that bad weather was punishment from God. And sadly some people from this modern era are stuck with the mind set of primitive men that lived a few thousand years ago.
So you know exactly how Adam and eve and those before the flood thought? Please, enlighten us.
Of course they lived over 900 years prior to the flood. Those who didn't were recorded as well. There is no real assurance that we, today, would have discovered the what and why of their longevity. Can you give scientific proof they would have found the reason? Please enlighten us.
Yes, floods come and go and people write about them. That's our whole point. The world-wide flood came and went and Noah wrote about it.
These are the first lines of the Nicene Creed created by the RCC:
We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.
That Genesis is allegoric does not mean there was no creation.
That Noah and the flood are mythologic does not mean it never rains. Nothing changes!
This is where belief in scripture would tell you, as Peter said, "Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"
This is where belief in scripture would tell you, as Peter said, "Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"
Julian is making an error in logic that if the RCC believes a certain way about something in the Bible that therefore their way must be correct.
Julian is making an error in logic that if the RCC believes a certain way about something in the Bible that therefore their way must be correct.
The Bible and the RCC are man made religions.
Men create religion to try to understand God.
However, the RCC has a better grasp than the writers of the OT.
And it would take a lot of rain to cover all the land masses of Earth.
And I would blasphemy any God that would kill innocent people. To kill is unGodly.
And there is no physiological explanation to decrease longevity from 900 years plus to about 40-50 years afterwards. This is a myth of major proportions.
I'm sure you can scientifically prove the Bible is a man made religion.
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Men create religion to try to understand God.
Please prove scientifically the above proposition.
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However, the RCC has a better grasp than the writers of the OT.
Please prove scientifically the above proposition.
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And it would take a lot of rain to cover all the land masses of Earth.
It wasn't just rain that cause the world-wide flood.
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And I would blasphemy any God that would kill innocent people. To kill is unGodly.
You are using "blasphemy" incorrectly. You mean "I would blaspheme . . . ."
Who said they were innocent?
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And there is no physiological explanation to decrease longevity from 900 years plus to about 40-50 years afterwards. This is a myth of major proportions.
Really? I'm sure you are prepared to scientifically prove your proposition above.
Julian is making an error in logic that if the RCC believes a certain way about something in the Bible that therefore their way must be correct.
hey
Yes, indeed! This is one of the reasons I left the RCC; do you have faith in God, or in men? RCC is a man-conceived organization, but I know, as having most of my relatives still being a part of it, that these people have very little light, and when everything is filtered through an organization, rather than God, someone is tapping the line. It is common sense that when you are receiving something second hand there will be changes made in one way or another. It doesn't matter how much they claim to be "the original", or the "one that was granted these things by God". It is written that there is only One mediator between God and man, and that is Jesus Christ. There is only One person between me and the Father, and that person is Jesus. No pastor, priest, church, church building, religion, or organization has earned the right to be that mediator. And our true mediator HAS earned that right, and HE alone shows us the love of the Father, and opens our eyes to the truth.
I'm sure you can scientifically prove the Bible is a man made religion.
Even you would agree that the bible was written by men and not God.
And you know why God did not write the Bible? Because the Bible is full of errors and by definition God has to be perfect.
I don't have to scientifically prove a negative is a negative. Science is ALL about observation and the defining parameters that describe the observations.
We can only observe that most men die before age 100. That men lived to be over 900 years is a mythological story. Just because someone writes down a myth does not make it real of true.
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Joshua 10:12-14
English Standard Version (ESV)
12 At that time Joshua spoke to the Lord in the day when the Lord gave the Amorites over to the sons of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel,
“Sun, stand still at Gibeon,
and moon, in the Valley of Aijalon.”
13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped,
until the nation took vengeance on their enemies.
Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stopped in the midst of heaven and did not hurry to set for about a whole day. 14 There has been no day like it before or since, when the Lord heeded the voice of a man, for the Lord fought for Israel.
Do you actually believe that Joshua stopped the sun from setting because he needed more daylight to kill people? This my friend is scientifically impossible.
Why are you unable to see the allegory in the Bible?
How would your world change if some verses of the Bible were allegoric?
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