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Dear Julian, I don't say this to be mean or anything but it is a fallacy of argument you are using that if the RCC says something it must be correct and who ever states differently than the RCC must be incorrect.
The fallacy is "the appeal to authority."
Oh, no. I don't think the RCC or anyone for that matter knows the truth.
However, the RCC is the oldest Christian institution in the world and they probably know a bit more theology than you do.
Lastly, the RCC already passed through the phase of you are experiencing now. In other words "being there done that".
The Catholic Church is now moving closer to reality and has given the green light to accept many parts of the Bible as allegoric. OTOH, in medieval times the Church was very much like you are today.
So you claim to be a better interpreter of God than the RCC. You have more wisdom than the Pope, the Vicar of Christ. And you do not present distorted information!
Julian, you have posted numerous times about the errors in the Bible, and that God is perfect, and therefore, since the Bible contains errors and was written down by men, it is not authoritatively from God. Yet, at the same time, you have a dying devotion to the RCC, and claim their authority as being higher. Apparently you are blind to the numerous errors in RCC, including all the sexual sins of its priesthood, the problems with Vatican government consorting with disreputable governments, the problems with the Vatican Bank, the LONG list of the corruption of the Papacy...need I go on?
I'm sorry, but your reliance on RCC is as faulty as the line of thought that you have about God's true authority.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
King David said, "O God, thou hast taught me from my youth: and hitherto have I declared thy wondrous works."
Jesus said, "It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me."
Isaiah said, "And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children."
Anyone who wants the pure truth goes to the source.
Jesus said, “And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:" - To say that this statement is allegorical, is synonymous with not believing that Jesus is our Savior. He is making a direct correlation between Noah's day and the time of His own Second Coming.
Julian, you have posted numerous times about the errors in the Bible, and that God is perfect, and therefore, since the Bible contains errors and was written down by men, it is not authoritatively from God. Yet, at the same time, you have a dying devotion to the RCC, and claim their authority as being higher. Apparently you are blind to the numerous errors in RCC, including all the sexual sins of its priesthood, the problems with Vatican government consorting with disreputable governments, the problems with the Vatican Bank, the LONG list of the corruption of the Papacy...need I go on?
I'm sorry, but your reliance on RCC is as faulty as the line of thought that you have about God's true authority.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
King David said, "O God, thou hast taught me from my youth: and hitherto have I declared thy wondrous works."
Jesus said, "It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me."
Isaiah said, "And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children."
Anyone who wants the pure truth goes to the source.
Jesus said, “And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:" - To say that this statement is allegorical, is synonymous with not believing that Jesus is our Savior. He is making a direct correlation between Noah's day and the time of His own Second Coming.
I just said the RCC IS HIGHLy imperfect. But, as of now it is the best we have. I do not claim that the RCC knows the truth; God remains a mystery.
My point is that some evangelicals are at the same point the RCC was centuries ago. That is OK since they are NEW and have growing pains.
The RCC grants catholics the concept of accepting Genesis as a poem. This is a higher stage than the literalists point of view.
Oh, no. I don't think the RCC or anyone for that matter knows the truth.
However, the RCC is the oldest Christian institution in the world and they probably know a bit more theology than you do.
Lastly, the RCC already passed through the phase of you are experiencing now. In other words "being there done that".
The Catholic Church is now moving closer to reality and has given the green light to accept many parts of the Bible as allegoric. OTOH, in medieval times the Church was very much like you are today.
If you don't think they know the truth then why did you accuse trumpethim of this:
"So you claim to be a better interpreter of God than the RCC. You have more wisdom than the Pope, the Vicar of Christ. And you do not present distorted information! "
If you don't think they know the truth then why did you accuse trumpethim of this:
"So you claim to be a better interpreter of God than the RCC. You have more wisdom than the Pope, the Vicar of Christ. And you do not present distorted information! "
or were you just joking around?
I was trying to make a point Eusebius.
The concept of my religion is better than yours is a grave mistake. We don't really know the truth and all we can do is try an approximation. However, as a catholic i am compelled to mention that at least my church is maturing and leaving medieval thinking behind. Paradoxically some protestants are now entering their medieval era.
And you should come back to the original church of Christ.
The concept of my religion is better than yours is a grave mistake. We don't really know the truth and all we can do is try an approximation. However, as a catholic i am compelled to mention that at least my church is maturing and leaving medieval thinking behind. Paradoxically some protestants are now entering their medieval era.
And you should come back to the original church of Christ.
But you just said the RCC does not know the truth.
Why should I let the blind lead me?
You can start your own thread on why we should go to the RCC that does not know the truth.
I really admire your free thought, and the fact that you have been able to retain the Love of the Father, as shown by Jesus, as the main principle to eternal life. The day will come that this will permeate the world, and peace, joy, and love will flow like a river. And in this, you have claimed what God has spoken as fact, and claimed the promise as if it were alive in this time and space.
Perhaps you have achieved a measure of this that most of us are still struggling with, the fight between flesh and Spirit. I hesitate to venture into that area fully right now, not because I don't want it, but because I realize that these things are in a progression, and they haven't actually arrived as of yet. I know, as in the case of the Law, it has been fulfilled through Jesus, but also, it has not yet been done away with. I see the follower of Jesus as not under the Law, as long as they are "in Him", but to abide fully in Jesus is something that I desire, but, just like many others, I have not yet attained fully. I look forward to the day that the Law has no affect on me whatsoever, but for now, it remains as the mirror that shows me my shortcomings. When I look away from that mirror, I oftentimes get dirty once again, but a quick look back gives me the realization that I need to wash once again. And the washing comes through the Word, and of course, the perfect holder of that Word is Jesus. (Forgive me if I sound a bit lecturing, My intent is to open my heart).
With the verses such as those in Hebrews 4, which speak of His rest, the one that inspires me and brings me back to reality is Hebrews 4:8, "For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day." The death of Jesus, (which you may know was actually His whole earthly life), but I mean His physical death and resurrection, was the beginning of a New Day. The old "day" of being under the law was passed, and the opportunity to receive God's Holy Spirit opened up a Day where we could actually experience the life of Jesus, and have His Law written upon our hearts. But it wasn't a fullness that occurred, just a portion, because the old Day of the Law needed to be used as the child-guide to the fullness of the new creation. As long as we are in this mortal body, the New cannot fully rest in us. Jesus was fortunate enough to have a perfectly sinless body, and therefore the Father could allow the Holy Spirit to come into Him in fullness. Oh, to be able to experience the Spirit in fullness! It will be SO Awesome! No more striving, just the Love of God pouring out!! But Jesus didn't give that rest at the beginning of that day, and we presently live in that time. When the Israelites crossed the Jordan to the Promised Land, a foretaste of these things was written in Joshua 3:4, "Yet there shall be a space between you and it, about two thousand cubits by measure: come not near unto it, that ye may know the way by which ye must go: for ye have not passed this way heretofore." The "rest" of God is in the Holy of Holies, or in Joshua's case, the Ark of the Covenant, and the Israelites were not to come near it so that they would know the WAY by which they should go, because they had not done this before. Following the life of Jesus, and having that WAY being our guide to the fullness, was a necessary thing, and they NEEDED a space of about 2000 cubits, (years), between when Jesus resurrected and when the followers of Jesus would be allowed to cross over into New life of resurrection. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how close we are to that! AD33
But soon...and another one of the keys to when that will occur is written in Hosea 6:1-3, then we will be able to HAVE what you seem to be displaying!
But you just said the RCC does not know the truth.
Why should I let the blind lead me?
You can start your own thread on why we should go to the RCC that does not know the truth.
This is for Noah's Ark.
I am certain the RCC thinks they have the truth just as you think you have the truth. The Muslims and Jews also think they have the truth. The 40,000 Protestant sects also think they have the truth.
Where does it end?
Why not have an open mind about this?
The Ark is allegoric, that is my truth. You think the allegory is real, that is your truth.
And in shifting this back to Noah...His day ended an age. The age of Adam. The Age of the Antedeluvians. It had to come to an end. God created evil, as He admitted in Isaiah 45:7, and here was a world that had become evil to the uttermost. It is a picture of mankind, and Jesus uses it to show that we are no different today than they were in that ACTUAL day, morally, and that this evil will increase until the next age will appear. It was not an illusion. It is taking place right before our eyes.
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