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As silly as this question may sound, I have seen many Atheists comments on here and other religious forums and they seem to know the bible better than most Christians. Many even admit they grew up in the church, were saved and baptized, but later on became atheists as they looked through the bible and thought the bible is a lie, there is no God, refer to God as the sky fairy, Jesus wasnt real or the son of God.
Lets take 2 scriptural examples on how to be saved.
Romans 10:9-11
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”[a]
Acts 16:31
31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
If a person did this at one point in their life, but no longer believe in God or want anything to do with him, will they go to heaven simply because they confessed and believed at one point in their life, but rejected God in the end?
We can't answer that question. ONLY God decides who goes to Heaven.
People who claim that they are "saved", claim that they are going to Heaven. When they do that, they put themselves above God, and are thus committing blasphemy.
Human beings should stop worrying about who goes to Heaven and who doesn't and they should start worrying about their own spiritual lives.
We can't answer that question. ONLY God decides who goes to Heaven.
People who claim that they are "saved", claim that they are going to Heaven. When they do that, they put themselves above God, and are thus committing blasphemy.
Human beings should stop worrying about who goes to Heaven and who doesn't and they should start worrying about their own spiritual lives.
But, but, but, everyone focuses on themselves and not ... God.
Man wants heaven because he has made the earth hell.
As silly as this question may sound, I have seen many Atheists comments on here and other religious forums and they seem to know the bible better than most Christians. Many even admit they grew up in the church, were saved and baptized, but later on became atheists as they looked through the bible and thought the bible is a lie, there is no God, refer to God as the sky fairy, Jesus wasnt real or the son of God.
Lets take 2 scriptural examples on how to be saved.
Romans 10:9-11
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”[a]
Acts 16:31
31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
If a person did this at one point in their life, but no longer believe in God or want anything to do with him, will they go to heaven simply because they confessed and believed at one point in their life, but rejected God in the end?
Yes. Once a person has been born again through faith in Christ Jesus he cannot lose or walk away from his salvation even though he comes to deny Christ. He will lose out on eternal rewards, but cannot lose his eternal life.
If only those of you who believe that salvation can be lost understood that just as we can do nothing to earn our salvation, neither can we lose our salvation by anything that we do or don't do. 2 Tim. 2:11 is a strong statement of the believer's eternal security.
2 Tim. 2:11 It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; 12] If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; 13] If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
In verse 11, the word 'if' is in the Greek first class condition which means that for the sake of argument it is assumed to be true that the believer has died with Christ. Therefore we will also live with Christ. That is a promise. And every believer HAS died with Christ. How? Because at the moment of faith alone in Christ alone God the Holy Spirit places every believer into a permanent union with Christ. This is the baptism of the Holy Spirit in which the believer is identified with Jesus in His death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and session at the right hand of the Father. And since every believer is identified with Christ in His death, then every believer will live with Christ. Romans 6:3-8 expands on this.
Romans 6:3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4] Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5] For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7] for he who has died is freed from sin. 8] Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
2 Tim. 2:12 speaks of the rulership responsibilities that the believer who endures in his spiritual life after having been eternally saved will have in the kingdom and for all eternity future, and that the believer who comes to deny Christ will be denied, not eternal life, but rulership responsibilities.
2 Tim. 2:13 then states that if we are faithless, Jesus remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself. Even though the believer becomes faithless, he is still part of the body of Christ and Jesus cannot deny Himself. The believer can lose out on eternal rewards, but he cannot lose or walk away from his eternal salvation.
But most of you who think you can lose your salvation won't even try to understand the eternal security of which the above passages speak. You will do what has been done so many times before and say, but what about this verse or that verse which you think indicates that salvation can be lost, thereby setting them in contradiction to the above passages. And those verses which you think indicate that salvation can be lost have been explained and the explanations have been ignored.
God is gracious. He did everything necessary through Christ Jesus to make salvation possible. All we do, all we can do is to accept the free gift by trusting Jesus for eternal life. Once you have received Christ as Savior, you are identified with Him in His death and will therefore live with Him even though you become faithless.
Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 and of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits. 4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. 7 For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.
Yes. Once a person has been born again through faith in Christ Jesus he cannot lose or walk away from his salvation even though he comes to deny Christ. He will lose out on eternal rewards, but cannot lose his eternal life.
If only those of you who believe that salvation can be lost understood that just as we can do nothing to earn our salvation, neither can we lose our salvation by anything that we do or don't do. 2 Tim. 2:11 is a strong statement of the believer's eternal security.
2 Tim. 2:11 It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; 12] If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; 13] If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
In verse 11, the word 'if' is in the Greek first class condition which means that for the sake of argument it is assumed to be true that the believer has died with Christ. Therefore we will also live with Christ. That is a promise. And every believer HAS died with Christ. How? Because at the moment of faith alone in Christ alone God the Holy Spirit places every believer into a permanent union with Christ. This is the baptism of the Holy Spirit in which the believer is identified with Jesus in His death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and session at the right hand of the Father. And since every believer is identified with Christ in His death, then every believer will live with Christ. Romans 6:3-8 expands on this.
Romans 6:3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4] Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5] For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7] for he who has died is freed from sin. 8] Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
2 Tim. 2:12 speaks of the rulership responsibilities that the believer who endures in his spiritual life after having been eternally saved will have in the kingdom and for all eternity future, and that the believer who comes to deny Christ will be denied, not eternal life, but rulership responsibilities.
2 Tim. 2:13 then states that if we are faithless, Jesus remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself. Even though the believer becomes faithless, he is still part of the body of Christ and Jesus cannot deny Himself. The believer can lose out on eternal rewards, but he cannot lose or walk away from his eternal salvation.
But most of you who think you can lose your salvation won't even try to understand the eternal security of which the above passages speak. You will do what has been done so many times before and say, but what about this verse or that verse which you think indicates that salvation can be lost, thereby setting them in contradiction to the above passages. And those verses which you think indicate that salvation can be lost have been explained and the explanations have been ignored.
God is gracious. He did everything necessary through Christ Jesus to make salvation possible. All we do, all we can do is to accept the free gift by trusting Jesus for eternal life. Once you have received Christ as Savior, you are identified with Him in His death and will therefore live with Him even though you become faithless.
Mark 3:28-29
New King James Version (NKJV)
The Unpardonable Sin
28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”—
Jesus is pretty clear on this. Rejecting God would count as blasphemes against the Holy Spirit.
John 15:6
If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
People say and think many different things ... even at different times in their lives; even things like, "I am a Christian or an Atheist." I've heard people make both of these statements, when neither was really true (one may not really understand what a 'Christian' is, while the other may simply be angry with God). Does, for example, a father (or perhaps a child), who screams in anger, "You are no longer my child/father"...actually change the truth of the matter? OR, in the context of the OP's question, "Is every child whose parents take them to church and Sunday School (and who is even baptized) ... actually a Christian?"
This is why we need a more reliable 'truth standard': the written Word of God (Bible), instead of only human opinion! It's also the basis of Jesus' statement: "You honor me with your lips, but, your hearts are far from me."
Apart from a vocal minority on CD who say and believe 'Everyone will ultimately be saved," the Bible says (and most Christians believe) something different. We believe that salvation is a Spiritual rebirth that comes by God's indwelling Holy Spirit, in the lives of those who truly "believe in their heart, and confess with their lips that Jesus is Lord."
Although 'words' may confuse us, God is NOT confused about the difference between those who only 'say' they believe in God or Jesus or attend a 'Christian church' ... and those in whose heart, Jesus Christ actually reigns as Savior and Lord.
So, in the context of the OP's question, 'All true Christians will ultimately spend eternity in heaven with God; ... and all true atheists will not.'
28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”—
Jesus is pretty clear on this. Rejecting God would count as blasphemes against the Holy Spirit.
This is exactly what I am talking about. You just ignore the passages I posted which show that the believer cannot lose his salvation and instead appeal to some verse which you think indicates that salvation can be lost.
The blaspheme against the Holy Spirit in the context of Mark 3:22-30 was a sin that could only be committed during Jesus' first advent in which He was performing miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit and the Pharisees were accusing Him of doing those miracles by Satan instead of the by the Holy Spirit. This was tantamount to rejecting Christ and refusing to come to Him for salvation. Now, while a person can refuse to come to Christ for salvation today, he cannot accuse Christ of performing miracles by the power of Satan. It is not as though once having blasphemed the Holy Spirit the Pharisees sin could not ever be forgiven, but that for as long as they continued to refuse to come to Christ they could not be forgiven.
People, the passages I referred to in post #5 are strong guarantees of the believer's eternal security. But if you will not even make any attempt to understand what they are saying, then I am simply wasting my time here. And I am not again going to explain every verse which you people think refutes the believer's eternal security. I've done that on other threads and was simply ignored.
Last edited by Michael Way; 06-16-2014 at 01:55 PM..
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