Will former Christians that became Atheists go to heaven? (beliefs, evolve, Holy Spirit)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
you will go to heaven not based upon your card carrying membership but upon your works. you dont "go to" heaven you are just were you were when you died no further nor behind --in the race.
twin.spin... your post is coming off as a bit rude, and you are putting words in my mouth.
If you would like to discuss this topic in a polite manner, please do so, and I will be more than happy to respond.
But, but, but, everyone focuses on themselves and not ... God.
Man wants heaven because he has made the earth hell.
Tell us about it. Here is a trailer from a 2006 documentary about some clergy that sexually abused children and were protected by powerful people at the highest levels that made life a living hell for over 100,000 Americans. They were definitely focused on themselves and protecting their power and image rather than God. I have seen the entire documentary and recommend it.
The new reform minded Pope has taken some positive steps, but really needed to be put there a lot earlier as some of these victims are well into their middle aged years now and in a few instances the pedophile priests have passed on and never got punished. That phrase about "closing the barn door after most of the animals have escaped" comes to mind.
As far as I am concerned, these pedophile priests are far worse than a typical law abiding atheist whose life is similar to most of ours with the exception of their disbelief in God. I would not feel too assured of a place in heaven if I were one of these priests that have committed such terrible crimes. I am sure glad I don't get to decide who goes to heaven. It would be very hard for me to allow one of these pedophiles to enter heaven while automatically sending atheists to hell. Especially when the pedophile priest is a far more despicable person and hopefully no one is foolish enough to debate that obvious point.
I truly believe God would be very forgiving toward one of these abuse victims that started as Christians and became atheists or agnostics largely as a result of the trauma associated with their horrendous experience as victims of a pedophile priest. I believe any decent person would agree.
I am just glad God has this sole responsibility and not us. That is the way it should be.
Last edited by chessgeek; 06-18-2014 at 08:44 PM..
twin.spin... your post is coming off as a bit rude, and you are putting words in my mouth. If you would like to discuss this topic in a polite manner, please do so, and I will be more than happy to respond.
sparrow
I am always taken aback by the lack of love displayed by some of those who claim to be Christian, sparrow. The anti-Christ (anti-love) corruption of Christ's Gospel is widespread and very distressing. The one thing we needed to get right (agape love) is the one thing that is missing while all the fights and divisiveness are over irrelevant "precepts and doctrines of men." It is a travesty!
I am always taken aback by the lack of love displayed by some of those who claim to be Christian, sparrow. The anti-Christ (anti-love) corruption of Christ's Gospel is widespread and very distressing. The one thing we needed to get right (agape love) is the one thing that is missing while all the fights and divisiveness are over irrelevant "precepts and doctrines of men." It is a travesty!
Where is the love in this post? Accusing others of non-love not love, it is passing judgment. There is a difference between talking about "agape love" and displaying it. Talking about it, while failing to show it is self righteous and hypocritical.
The topic is apostasy, which is something that I believe that true believers are divided on. Those that adhere to an "antinomian" perspective would state that a born-again believer can apostasy resulting in a loss of rewards but keep their eternal life. Those that adhere to an Arminian perspective would state that the born-again believer can apostasy resulting in a loss of their salvation. Those that adhere to a Calvanist perspective would state that the born-again believer can not apostasize from the faith as it is God's Spirit working in them both to will and to do His good pleasure.
The key scriptures to look at for these are 1 Corinthians 10, the book of Jude, both epistles of of Peter, 1 John, John 6, Book of Hebrews etc.
I have struggled with understanding this concept myself actually. Currently I hold more of a Calvanist perspective. I believe for a Christian to even be able to walk in Faith they must have full assurance of their Salvation based upon God's faithfulness.
Judas Iscariot is the prime biblical example of an apostate, and Jesus calls him the "son of Perdition" stating it be better for him to have never been born.
Judas was prior to the "church age" however where beginning at Pentecost God indwells and "Seals" believers "until the day of redemption" (Ephesians 4:30) with His Holy Spirit imputing His righteousness to them.
Here is an example of an apostate in the NT..
2 Timothy 4:10
For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.
It makes me think of ..
Luke 8:14
And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
Hebrews 6:7-9 (KJV)
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
This is an area of Scripture that I think true blood bought born-again Christians disagree.
It is clear however that there is many false professions of faith. (Matt 7) Many thinking they are entering the Kingdom will find out that they were lost.
Last edited by Mikelee81; 06-19-2014 at 08:15 AM..
I am always taken aback by the lack of love displayed by some of those who claim to be Christian, sparrow. The anti-Christ (anti-love) corruption of Christ's Gospel is widespread and very distressing. The one thing we needed to get right (agape love) is the one thing that is missing while all the fights and divisiveness are over irrelevant "precepts and doctrines of men." It is a travesty!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Where is the love in this post? Accusing others of non-love not love, it is passing judgment. There is a difference between talking about "agape love" and displaying it. Talking about it, while failing to show it is self righteous and hypocritical.
I know you have difficulty distinguishing between love toward people and love toward doctrine . . . so it is not surprising that you confuse a lack of love for doctrine with a lack of love for people. You also confuse judging precepts and doctrines with judging people. I have tried many times to help you see the distinction, Finn . . . but you seem unable or unwilling.
I know you have difficulty distinguishing between love toward people and love toward doctrine . . . so it is not surprising that you confuse a lack of love for doctrine with a lack of love for people. You also confuse judging precepts and doctrines with judging people. I have tried many times to help you see the distinction, Finn . . . but you seem unable or unwilling.
Being that I didn't want to make my second reply too long, I should also have said that a wholesome judging is a part of all this. We are called to judge with discernment and especially in a gentle spirit of humility that seeks to help, not hurt.
Sadly ... too often a gentle spirit of humility that seeks to help does not occur in the heat of the moment.
I do apologize for the tone of the first op. My intent wasn't to disrespectful.
twin
I sincerely accept it and my tone could have been better, too. I did some additional reading and still it seems like we are on a short leash to judge. It added some context, but does not change my basic viewpoint.
Anyways, one of the big "no-no's" I have for myself in my Christian walk is to avoid condemning any group of people to hell. If I do that, I believe I am practicing a form of hatred. That is just the standard I have for myself and believe God also has for me. I respectfully agree to disagree with others who do not view it that way.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
