Many "Christians" have been deceived and are on their way to destruction (punishment, believers)
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No, the Bible does not state that.
I doubt that any of this will sink in either with you or with the OP. With legalists it usually doesn't. But the fact is that a person is saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus (Eph. 2:8-9). Not by repenting of his sins or by adding anything to faith alone in Christ Jesus.
I hope you study these things friend. If you run around teaching people they can have eternal life and be sinners, then you are sending them to destruction.
They are not saved by righteousness. They are saved by Christ. But let me tell you this clearly.
If they do not turn from their sins:
then they never repented,
then they never had faith,
then they never knew God and His ways,
then they never picked up their cross and followed Him,
then they were never born of God, and
the only thing awaiting them is judgement and death.
It is NOT legalism. It is the gospel.
Nobody is saying they earn their salvation from their own works.
They are saved by faith.
The Bible says, that repentance (turning from sin) proves you have real faith.
If you do not repent, then your faith is dead and worthless and you will be destroyed.
No amount of trusting in Christ will save you, because you have deceived yourself and Christ is not in you.
Jesus tells us, if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off.
Because it is better to lose a hand than to continue in sin and be destroyed.
If sin is acceptable, then Jesus is being ridiculous.
It is NOT acceptable.
Is God asking too much of us?
Take your thoughts into submission to Christ.
Stop stealing, stop swearing, stop hating people, stop lusting and being sexually immoral,
stop being greedy, stop disrespecting your parents, stop coveting peoples stuff.
It's not that hard if you rely on the Spirit. He's not asking you to become a Levitical priest or anything crazy like that. Just love what is good. Then your fruits will prove that indeed you are a follower of Christ
I hope you study these things friend. If you run around teaching people they can have eternal life and be sinners, then you are sending them to destruction.
They are not saved by righteousness. They are saved by Christ. But let me tell you this clearly.
If they do not turn from their sins:
then they never repented,
then they never had faith,
then they never knew God and His ways,
then they never picked up their cross and followed Him,
then they were never born of God, and
the only thing awaiting them is judgement and death.
It is NOT legalism. It is the gospel.
Nobody is saying they earn their salvation from their own works.
They are saved by faith.
The Bible says, that repentance (turning from sin) proves you have real faith.
If you do not repent, then your faith is dead and worthless and you will be destroyed.
No amount of trusting in Christ will save you, because you have deceived yourself and Christ is not in you.
Jesus tells us, if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off.
Because it is better to lose a hand than to continue in sin and be destroyed.
If sin is acceptable, then Jesus is being ridiculous.
It is NOT acceptable.
Is God asking too much of us?
Take your thoughts into submission to Christ.
Stop stealing, stop swearing, stop hating people, stop lusting and being sexually immoral,
stop being greedy, stop disrespecting your parents, stop coveting peoples stuff.
It's not that hard if you rely on the Spirit. He's not asking you to become a Levitical priest or anything crazy like that. Just love what is good. Then your fruits will prove that indeed you are a follower of Christ
While I don't agree with Mike most of the time, I'd have to say that you don't know what the Gospel really is...
I was front and center for my youngest sister's first confession. God, she was adorable and so excited. She knew the commandments and passed all of her tests for her first communion.
She admitted everything, and how many times she sinned. She coveted her neighbors wife, and husband several times if I remember.
If you have ever seen Goonies, that was the confession.
The rest of us received extra penance for laughing so hard.
Nobody is saying we are without sin. We are saying you must turn from your sin in repentance.
We are saying that those who practice righteousness are righteous and are born again and are children of God.
Those who practice lawlessness and sin, are not born again and do not know God.
This is what the Bible states. Calling someone a hypocrite will not change that
The Corinthians were carnal Christians at the time that Paul wrote his first epistle to them.
1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ. 2] I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, 3] for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?
If you want to tell believers they can sin, then you better pray that none are lead astray by your leaven.
Yes, they obviously got into an argument in Corinth and someone was jealous of something someone else had or some role someone had. Maybe the jealousy was the cause of the argument. That is not a willful sin, that is a sinful/fleshly reaction in a moment of passion. Yes, those thoughts need to be brought into submission to Christ. That is why Paul was addressing it, and you can bet that they listened to Paul or they would have been expelled from the church if it kept happening.
But, I mean come on, is that all your proof that Christians can sin? You think if they were willfully engaging in the practice of sin that Paul would be writing to them so lightly? No, he would be saying, "get that sinner out of the church before he corrupts all of you!"
Now they did eventually begin to grow spiritually, but they show the reality of the carnal Christian. So does James 4. These are eternally saved believers that James is addressing.[indent] James 4:1 What is the source of quarrels and conflicts among you? Is not the source your pleasures that wage war in your members? 2] You lust and do not have; so you commit murder. You are envious and cannot obtain; so you fight and quarrel. You do not have because you do not ask. 3] You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures. 4] You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
Are you suggesting that they were murdering and stealing from each other?
You guys are pointing out a couple examples where people are reacting to each other in a sinful/fleshly way. In each example, they are being told to stop their sin and walk by the Spirit.
Yes, if it will please you, I will admit that believers who are new to the faith and immature in their walk will stumble and that the process of submitting their thoughts to Christ may take a bit of time, but they are being warned and admonished each time it happens.
The gospel being preached today is, "Hey, come as you are. It's ok, if you want to stop sinning its up to you. God will forgive you. Just do what feels best to you" And most never actually repent of anything except by saying "I'm sorry" Repentance is not a life long process. First you repent, then you become sanctified and mature
This is not the gospel. You repent from your sins, you submit your thoughts to Christ and you walk by the Spirit or you else you are not a Christian and your faith in Christ is dead.
"You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men."
Life is beautiful friend. And we are not to be pitied. The person to be pitied is the man who continues in his sin, believing he has "eternal life" yet his conversion and repentance is false. When you are born again, you repent of your sins, which means stop doing them.
If you have not done that, then you must stop what you are doing and truly repent. Do not even consider yourself a Christian until your repentance is complete. Once it is complete, then you can worry about removing the speck in another brothers eye.
An excellent post. I believe there are many who profess that they have repented, but show by their actions that they have not truly repented. Until that repentance is complete and they commit to OBEY HIM, then they can be given the Holy Spirit.
I hope you study these things friend. If you run around teaching people they can have eternal life and be sinners, then you are sending them to destruction.
They are not saved by righteousness. They are saved by Christ. But let me tell you this clearly.
If they do not turn from their sins:
then they never repented,
then they never had faith,
then they never knew God and His ways,
then they never picked up their cross and followed Him,
then they were never born of God, and
the only thing awaiting them is judgement and death.
It is NOT legalism. It is the gospel.
Nobody is saying they earn their salvation from their own works.
They are saved by faith.
The Bible says, that repentance (turning from sin) proves you have real faith.
If you do not repent, then your faith is dead and worthless and you will be destroyed.
No amount of trusting in Christ will save you, because you have deceived yourself and Christ is not in you.
Jesus tells us, if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off.
Because it is better to lose a hand than to continue in sin and be destroyed.
If sin is acceptable, then Jesus is being ridiculous.
It is NOT acceptable.
Is God asking too much of us?
Take your thoughts into submission to Christ.
Stop stealing, stop swearing, stop hating people, stop lusting and being sexually immoral,
stop being greedy, stop disrespecting your parents, stop coveting peoples stuff.
It's not that hard if you rely on the Spirit. He's not asking you to become a Levitical priest or anything crazy like that. Just love what is good. Then your fruits will prove that indeed you are a follower of Christ
You pervert the gospel. The only requirement for eternal life is to believe that Christ died for your sins. Nowhere does the gospel say that you have to repent of your sins to be saved. And nowhere does the Bible say that you must prove your faith (to whom?) to be saved. The Christian who is growing spiritually will sin less and less, but he will still sin. And I have already shown you from Scripture that Christians are fully capable of living in sin. And no, I am not advocating that Christians willfully sin.
Sin is not acceptable. That is why Jesus came into the world in order to pay the penalty for sin thus removing it as an issue in salvation and making the issue one of faith in Him alone for eternal life. No matter how much the Christian sins he cannot lose his salvation. He can come under divine discipline in time and lose eternal rewards, but his eternal salvation is secured. And if you don't understand this then you understand nothing about the grace of God.
And again, a person is saved when the righteousness of Christ is credited to his account when he trusts in the finished work of Christ on the cross. No matter how much the believer sins, God looks at the imputed righteousness of Christ in that believer and recognizes that he has been declared justified. And when the believer sins, he has Christ as his advocate.
1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
No matter how much the believer sins, Jesus is his advocate. His defense attorney.
Last edited by Michael Way; 02-22-2015 at 07:33 AM..
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