Scripture/The Bible is God's Inspired, Inerrant, Infallible Word of Truth. (Holy Spirit, mystic)
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Which very clearly reveals that you have either not read it ... or, at the very least, have not understood it! Where in scripture to you see or understand God as a promoter of all of the 'sordid stuff reported in scripture??' Just because scripture references the wicked, God-rebelling behavior of people, does not mean that God is in favor of it?? --
The notion that those who believe the Bible must subscribe to a belief that God is evil, is totally out in left field. I honestly don't understand where people get the notion that God is evil ... or that the Bible says God is evil ... or that Christians believe God is evil ... or that without the Word and truth of God, people imagine they can even comprehend good or evil ("Where there was no law, there was no transgression of the law."
-- Before someone claims that I am saying Christians should be about the law, I am not! The law was simply given to enable people to recognize their own sin and desperate need for a Savior.
God did not promote the evil "stuff" in Scripture. But there are millions of Christians who used and still use the Bible to justify slavery, burning/drowning witches, and now treating homosexuals as sub-human (while claiming to love them). Let me know when you want a list of prominent names. It may take me a few days logistically, but it's easy enough to find out if someone refrains from putting their head in the sand.
I think Desmond Tutu said it best. "The Bible is like a knife. Some men use it to butter bread and feed the hungry. Others use it as a weapon to kill their brothers."
This is why there is always a challenge to everyone about the way they chose to read the Scriptures. Some people need the Bible as a weapon to justify the status quo and protect their self-interest. Others read the Bible through the lens of the life of Jesus as part of God's liberating purpose for all creation.
To the extent we understand the Bible through the last sentence above, we will find ourselves feeding, not killing, liberating, not enslaving. We become God's non-violent army for all who suffer, and we stand united for the protection of all who are oppressed.
The minute I hear about the "righteousness" of God, 99 times out of a hundred, the Bible is about to become someone's weapon.
Where did you learn about the Spirit? (Holy Spirit right?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
Through its action in my life. Would where I learned of it make a difference as to the authority of the Holy Spirit?
Quote:
Originally Posted by daylux
You can't say it.
Your transparent effort to get nate to say the Bible is pointless. We acknowledge that the Bible CONTAINS inspired truth . . . but it is NOT the word of God. Christ IS. It is NOT the Holy Spirit of agape love . . . the Comforter IS. The Bible is NOT what God has "written in our hearts" and is NOT what the Comforter guides us to in order to learn the truth under the New Covenant. Words "Written in ink" and stone are for the Old Covenant.
While that is of course true, your acknowledgement of Satan raises an interesting point. Satan would not be called 'the great deceiver' or the 'father of all liars' ... if he wasn't both smart and deceptive. The point is that one must have a common, reliable truth standard that enables them to distinguish between the lies of Satan and the Truth !
I like the one attributed to Jesus: "by their fruit ye shall know them. This can be applied to everything from descriptions in the Bible to doctrines derived from it as well as the people who expound them.
I'm not trying to single you out Warden, but I've seen this argument many times before from others and it doesn't hold up for me. I'm curious though, would you discount God's power to influence scripture? I feel that by saying the Bible is not infallible or bogus is some areas because of edits is the same as saying God is not powerful enough to choose what will and won't be maintained in scriptures. By that reasoning, do you believe God is not omniscient and all-powerful?
Scripture was inspired by God. To the extent it's understanding brings about Christlike actions it works. John Bunyan wrote a book called "Pilgrim's Progress." That inspired tens of thousands to look introspectively at their own lives. I consider it no less inspired than any of the 66 books in the Bible. If something comes from God, there are no "levels" of inspiration---God is involved and He gives it everything He has without interfering in our free choice.
The Bible is a very human witness to the presence and grace of God. God interacts with humans and sometimes ( by way of divine intervention) some humans get it. They perceive and understand that presence and write down their experience. The Bible is a collection of those experiences handed down so that succeeding generations can evaluate their own experiences.
But the concept used by fundamentalists of reading the Bible line by line is a relatively new, more modern way of interpreting Scripture, in a way that would be totally foreign to pre-enlightenment Christians. Reducing the poetry, metaphor, symbolism and other literary devices present in the Bible to the point that it becomes a technical how-to manual not only robs our appreciation for human expression, it misses the myriad of ways that God has chosen to deal with men throughout history.
The only really important inspiration is not the words used to write scripture, it is in the way we receive scripture. For God has to be alive and well in its reception in a human heart if any radical change is going to take place.
And that's why we have lots of people believing "inspired words" in the Bible, but having received no inspiration in receiving such words, they don't understand what it means to be a brother or sister of Christ who demonstrated His faith by being a suffering servant and the Son of Man.
I like the one attributed to Jesus: "by their fruit ye shall know them. This can be applied to everything from descriptions in the Bible to doctrines derived from it as well as the people who expound them.
Your transparent effort to get nate to say the Bible is pointless. We acknowledge that the Bible CONTAINS inspired truth . . . but it is NOT the word of God. Christ IS. It is NOT the Holy Spirit of agape love . . . the Comforter IS. The Bible is NOT what God has "written in our hearts" and is NOT what the Comforter guides us to in order to learn the truth under the New Covenant. Words "Written in ink" and stone are for the Old Covenant.
How do you know Christ is the Word?
I should ask, where did you learn Christ is the Word?
Through its action in my life. Would where I learned of it make a difference as to the authority of the Holy Spirit?
Quote:
Originally Posted by daylux
You can't say it.
I DID say it, but I know what you want me to say. Unfortunately you worded your question wrongly to get the answer you wanted. I first heard of the Holy Spirit in Bible class and first read of it in the Bible, but I first learned of it through its actions in my life.
What YOU can't seem to say is why the authority would be changed in any way by whatever answer I gave.
The question is one of authority. Anyone may quote what the Spirit approves in the book, but the authority lies in the Spirit, not the book.
Who decides what the Spirit approves?
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