Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Rev 22:11, He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Near the very end of the Bible, God makes it clear that if someone has not come to faith by the time that they have come to that point in their reading, they never will.
I came to faith in Christ when I started reading Genesis and Matthew and was a born again Christian by the time I had absorbed Matthew 8:1-4.
Reading Matthew 5-7 showed me that I was a sinner in need of a Saviour and Matthew 8:1-4 showed me the solution...
It showed me that I was spiritually a leper and that the Lord was willing to cleanse me of my spiritual leprosy.
I just have to say this, having converted to Catholicism from Protestantism 25 years ago:
The Roman Catholic Church has NEVER thought that God just stopped communicating with people when the ROMAN CATHOLIC COUNCIL OF BISHOPS decided on the canon of scripture well over 1600 years ago. That is why doctrine continues to evolve. Sola Scriptura is not taught in the bible anywhere.
That being said, nothing that the bible teaches can be refuted via doctrinal growth. The Roman Catholic Church does not believe that God will contradict Himself.
Again, the New Testament Church, the dispensation of the Church is not mentioned anywhere in the Old Testament. The Church-Age, the dispensation of grace was kept hidden during Old Testament times and not revealed until after Jesus had ascended into heaven. As Paul said in Ephesians 3:9 the administration of the mystery had been hidden in God for ages.
Hebrews 7-13 says nothing about the church being revealed or mentioned in the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible. Nor does Genesis 14.
If you don't understand the subject of dispensationalism you won't understand what I said above.
While dispensationalism (and covenant theology for that matter) do draw initially on revealed truths, the problem is in the conclusions, and it's the constraints of the two systems that keep adherents from recognizing that the inferences they make do not follow.
While dispensationalism (and covenant theology for that matter) do draw initially on revealed truths, the problem is in the conclusions, and it's the constraints of the two systems that keep adherents from recognizing that the inferences they make do not follow.
There is no mistaking what Paul said concerning the fact that this dispensation of the Church-Age was kept hidden in ages past. Therefore, the New Testament church is not mentioned in the Old Testament. Period.
There is no mistaking what Paul said concerning the fact that this dispensation of the Church-Age was kept hidden in ages past. Therefore, the New Testament church is not mentioned in the Old Testament. Period.
Not to be a gadfly, but if this knowledge was hidden or occult or not revealed or explained, it could be hiding in plain sight. It could have been mentioned but did not make sense or was misunderstood until now. So that would open the door to post hoc interpretations of OT passages as referring to the church.
To borrow from, and corrupt, Jurrasic Park -- dogma finds a way.
Not to be a gadfly, but if this knowledge was hidden or occult or not revealed or explained, it could be hiding in plain sight. It could have been mentioned but did not make sense or was misunderstood until now. So that would open the door to post hoc interpretations of OT passages as referring to the church.
To borrow from, and corrupt, Jurrasic Park -- dogma finds a way.
According to St. Augustine, "That which is called the Christian religion existed among the ancients, and never did not exist from the beginning of the human race until Christ came in the flesh, at which time the true religion, which already existed, began to be called Christianity."
According to St. Augustine, "That which is called the Christian religion existed among the ancients, and never did not exist from the beginning of the human race until Christ came in the flesh, at which time the true religion, which already existed, began to be called Christianity."
Good pont.
I remember people asking how anyone ever was made right with god before Christ. The explanations were kind of tortured and stretchy, but the gist was that the ancients "looked forward" to, or anticipated, or hoped in, what Christ eventually provided. A righteous man in 1000 BC (or BCE, or however it's now correct to put it) somehow did not really trust in his good works or temple sacrifices to save him, but understood in some weird way that the Messiah would come along and spring him from Sheol (the good part, known as "the bosom of Abraham"), a sort of temporary holding tank or underworld existence, and be included in some future heaven for the righteous, after being posthumously made righteous by Christ's perfect sacrifice.
Which if it sounds complicated and kind of leaky, it's because it is.
But that was the story anyway, and it hasn't occurred to me but this business of the church being some big Hidden Mystery to the ancients, and not even foreshadowed or dimly comprehended, would consign them all to hell, would it not?
I remember people asking how anyone ever was made right with god before Christ. The explanations were kind of tortured and stretchy, but the gist was that the ancients "looked forward" to, or anticipated, or hoped in, what Christ eventually provided. A righteous man in 1000 BC (or BCE, or however it's now correct to put it) somehow did not really trust in his good works or temple sacrifices to save him, but understood in some weird way that the Messiah would come along and spring him from Sheol (the good part, known as "the bosom of Abraham"), a sort of temporary holding tank or underworld existence, and be included in some future heaven for the righteous, after being posthumously made righteous by Christ's perfect sacrifice.
Which if it sounds complicated and kind of leaky, it's because it is.
But that was the story anyway, and it hasn't occurred to me but this business of the church being some big Hidden Mystery to the ancients, and not even foreshadowed or dimly comprehended, would consign them all to hell, would it not?
Did not JC said that He was a mysteries teacher? Somewhere the church was switched to the wrong set of rails..
Did not JC said that He was a mysteries teacher? Somewhere the church was switched to the wrong set of rails..
Gospel writer Luke found the ' somewhere ' to be at the sometime of Acts 20:29-30.
After the death of the apostles is when the apostasy set in; the wrong set of rails.
The fake 'weed/tares' would be growing along with the genuine ' wheat ' Christians until the Harvest Time.
We know a harvest time is at the end of a long growing season.
That end season is connected to Jesus' coming Glory Time of Matthew 25:31-34
Gospel writer Luke found the ' somewhere ' to be at the sometime of Acts 20:29-30.
After the death of the apostles is when the apostasy set in; the wrong set of rails.
The fake 'weed/tares' would be growing along with the genuine ' wheat ' Christians until the Harvest Time.
We know a harvest time is at the end of a long growing season.
That end season is connected to Jesus' coming Glory Time of Matthew 25:31-34
Yes, Acts 20.
Last edited by G.Duval; 06-15-2022 at 08:24 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
