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Sexuality is God's idea, and we should learn from God what it is. It's a man and a woman created in beautifully complementary ways so that they form one flesh. And to try to do it another way is a distortion. It's a corruption. It's a dysfunction of the way God made it.
If God condoned homosexuality even in the nature of two committed same sex couples then he would refer to when two men or two women join together to form one flesh.
As far as I concerned I done with this thread. What you choose to do, God will judge, just as he will judge me.
I'm sad that you let some men holding a book convince you that their was something wrong with who you are.
You are correct. It is a choice and no one is forced to by "Love". Especially since Loving God comes ahead of loving anyone else and always leads to the best life. Ignoring Him does not.
No, he is not correct.
And neither are you.
Spreading ignorance and bigotry is never correct. You and your primitive beliefs are destined for near extinction.
Recently the whole "homosexual lifestyle" nonsense has come back up (again), so I thought I'd post an article by John Pavlovitz, after getting his permission.
The article is called "Repeat After Me: There Is No Such Thing As A Homosexual Lifestyle."
Today I read another Christian article alluding to a “same-sex lifestyleâ€. How we’re still talking like this as reasonable, intelligent adults in 2016 is fairly baffling in itself, but since some of us are let’s try to dig a little deeper and figure out just these folks are saying when they say it.
The implication in such terminology is that there are some physical behaviors that can be separated out from someone’s core identity; that a person can be authentically one thing as an internal reality and yet act very selectively in a way that runs in direct opposition to it.
Without fail, a Conservative Christian makes this assertion about an LGBTQ person, in an effort to say that their “homosexuality†is what they do, not who they are. They contend that these people can manage these outward behaviors and all will be well. A man who is attracted to men, they suggest, is really heterosexual and simply acting in a way that denies this (for reasons they usually can’t coherently name other than they hate their fathers or God).
This leads to the common Church concept of a person being a “practicing homosexualâ€.
Those lazily tossing around such terms usually have little regard for just how such an idea falls completely apart if they are asked to consider whether or not they are a “practicing heterosexualâ€. (Such an idea then becomes rightly ludicrous.) When it comes to their own identity and their own sexuality and their own sense of attraction and affection, they know full well that they act because they are a particular way. Their identity is not dictated by their behavior.
Some choose to follow the Bible's moral code other choose not to. That's a choice. Christians supposedly follow the Bible's moral code including the teachings of Jesus who reflected his Father's views. 1 Corinthians 6:18 would make it incumbent on Christians to reject all sexual misconduct. However, also incumbent on Christians is to be peaceable with all people (Hebrews 12:14). This was repeated by the Apostle Peter in 1 Peter 2:17. And certainly as Christians we are to follow what's referred to as the Golden Rule found in Matthew 7:12. Christians should not use the Bible as an excuse to mistreat or mock people who are homosexual this would include refraining from sponsoring propositions or legislations that force their viewpoint on others. However, it is also true that Christians who do not accept homosexual conduct yet endeavor to live peaceably with all including homosexuals should be given the same respect that those who are homosexual demand of others. Because I don't accept homosexual conduct as compatible with the Bible's moral code does not make me a narrow minded or bigoted individual. On the contrary forcing a viewpoint on people that reject it to me constitutes narrow mindedness or bigotry.
We all have a gender identity and a sexual orientation and these things all fall along a vast and complicated continuum. It is this specific combination of both how we see ourselves and who we are drawn to that form this essential part of who we are.
This is such a simple idea, but one the Church seems willfully intending to miss in order to still hold onto the prejudices and fears our faith inherited 3500 years ago when we didn’t know what we know now. These people are deliberately choosing to not know now; preferring religion to reality—and it’s ruining people’s lives and pushing them from the Church in droves.
The idea for any of us, that who we are internally and what we do with our bodies can be compartmentalized is plainly ridiculous, and furthermore it’s irresponsible and dangerous to perpetuate such falsehoods in the Church. These teachings compel people, out of some guilt-induced desire to please God or in an effort to fit into religious community, to curb any outward expressions of their gender identity and sexual orientation. Many go as far as getting married to people of the opposite gender in an effort to behave themselves right; to fake-it-till-they-make-it.
And one of two things invariably happens: They either die never being their most authentic selves, or they decide to stop suppressing their truth and it all blows up.
The trail of depression, addiction, self-harm, divorces, and broken families it leaves is one of modern Christianity’s greatest sins. It’s creating unnecessary suffering. It’s forcing people into duplicity. It’s applying a rule to the LGBTQ community that doesn’t exist for straight, cisgender Christians.
Whatever our gender identity and sexual orientation are, these things do not become less or more so based on our behavior or by what we choose to show to the world. The Church and its leaders need to allow this simple reality to inform our theology, rather than clinging to our theology even if it perpetuates an old lie. We need to allow time, Science, History, and Humanity to educate us so that we treat people with the dignity befitting them. If we are to rightly love others as ourselves, we need to agree that they operate the same way that we do.
There is no such thing as a heterosexual lifestyle. There is no such thing as a homosexual lifestyle. There are only lives.
There are only individual human beings who have completely unique identities and inclinations to love and be loved, and God has placed them there. There is nothing we can do to alter those things in ourselves by acting or not acting in certain ways, and we can’t change those realities in other people by forcing them to behave in a way that we desire. People need and deserve to be the most authentic version of themselves; at home, at work, with family, in society—and especially in spiritual community.
We need a Church and Christians wise and honest and brave enough to admit this, and to move ahead with creating a bigger table where all people can gather as they are.
This doesn’t have to be difficult. Christians need to stop making it so.
Some choose to follow the Bible's moral code others choose not to. That's a choice. Christians supposedly follow the Bible's moral code including the teachings of Jesus who reflected his Father's views. 1 Corinthians 6:18 would make it incumbent on Christians to reject all sexual misconduct. However, also incumbent on Christians is to be peaceable with all people (Hebrews 12:14). This was repeated by the Apostle Peter in 1 Peter 2:17. And, certainly as Christians we are to follow what's referred to as the Golden Rule found in Matthew 7:12. Christians do not mistreat or mock people who are homosexual this would include refraining from sponsoring propositions or legislations that force their viewpoint on others. However, it is also true that Christians who do not accept homosexual conduct yet endeavor to live peaceably with all including homosexuals should be given the same respect that those who are homosexual demand of others. Because I don't accept homosexual conduct as compatible with the Bible's moral code does not make me less intelligent or unreasonable. To me it's disgusting to hear or read or see victims of crime or war injured or killed and that's regardless of their sexual orientation. On the contrary forcing one's viewpoint on others (i.e. if you don't accept a certain conduct makes you less intelligent or reasonable) to me constitutes a narrow minded viewpoint. Bible teaches to be respectful of all kinds of people but it doesn't say to accept all conduct. The Bible doesn't explain the biology of homosexuality but what it does say about humans is that we are dignified with the ability to not act on impulse. Unlike other animals we have the ability to control our urges. That's part of being sentient and intelligent living creatures. It's what makes us human. I would not think that homosexuals are any less capable of doing so.
If you marry a man, or date a man, and you are a man it is a homosexual lifestyle.
Each person must account by themselves to God for their life once they die. Everyone sins, so, a homosexual person may or may not by the grace of God enter eternal life in heaven.
I worry about my own sins. But the author of this thread is not going to convince me that premarital sex (heterosexuality), adultery, or homosexual sex are not by Jesus immoral.
Jesus states in the New Testament in Matthew that sin must come into the world, such things must happen, but he warns, and I paraphrase, "Woe to those whom sin comes through."
He tells the Apostles that all followers of Him (Jesus) must be like "the little ones" (children) and parts of His statements can be interpreted as saying woe to those Christians who lead or sucker even adult ("little ones") Christians into sin.
But you can make a mockery out of the brutal torture and death of Jesus by arguing all God in heaven ever wanted is to tell people to be "nice" to each other like indifferent hippies.
From a logical standpoint, "Everyone be nice to each other," is a lot fewer words than all the words in the Bible. Even Jesus spoke more than that. Jesus more than any other prophet in the Bible warned of eternal suffering and damnation in hell. He was morally more conservative than Moses who allowed men to have multiple wives.
But Jesus was forgiving and merciful. That is equally important.
Personally, I don't see why cutting your enemy's throat is wrong, having sex with a million women, or banging 20 gay or bi dudes in the butt or mouth. But I try to tell myself what I think is not wrong might actually be wrong, and if God says something is wrong I better listen to God before I listen to my own sinful thoughts and concepts. I try to at least. I still remain remarkably sinful. So, if God can have mercy on me I figure he can have mercy on anyone (no matter if they are in homosexual relationships or not).
I'm sad that you let some men holding a book convince you that their was something wrong with who you are.
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Originally Posted by nateswift
WELL worth repeating.
Amen! Other99 is the real victim of fundamentalist ignorance and superstition. It is a travesty.
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Originally Posted by geekigurl
What I've come to understand, after a lot of prayer, thought and careful study is that more than anything else, God looks at our hearts. For a Christian, having a relationship centered in Christ is not sinful, regardless of orientation. For many, sex seems to be the primary issue, but that isn't what makes a committed relationship. One of the desires of my heart is to know what it's like to fall in love before I die. I don't believe this is unreasonable.
Well said. Sex is a purely carnal act and has no intrinsic connection with love. We as humans BRING love to the act because that is what our spirits seek. If we do not, it is not there. Our body seeks the sex in lust. God is concerned with the love our spirit seeks, not the carnal lust.
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Originally Posted by DewDropInn
Most people are much older before they have that kind of wisdom. Well done, geekigurl.
(Some never have it. They bury their heads in their holy book of choice and never grow.)
You are correct. It is a choice and no one is forced to by "Love". Especially since Loving God comes ahead of loving anyone else and always leads to the best life. Ignoring Him does not.
You can NOT love God who you do not see if you do not love your brother who you DO see. We love God by loving each other, not by following a set of primitive, anachronistic and barbaric superstitious rules and beliefs.
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Originally Posted by TroutDude
No, he is not correct.
And neither are you.
Spreading ignorance and bigotry is never correct. You and your primitive beliefs are destined for near extinction.
Thank God.
I worry about my own sins. But the author of this thread is not going to convince me that premarital sex (heterosexuality), adultery, or homosexual sex are not by Jesus immoral.
Personally I do not take peoples declarations by fiat as to what is moral or immoral however. Anyone, whether you thought them human or a god, that is meant to be RATIONAL..... and I assume you think your Nazerene was rational...... must have a rational basis for the positions they hold.
So I have little to no respect for the position of "Jesus appears to have thought homosexuality immoral, therefore homosexuality is immoral".
What I have respect for is "Jesus appears to have thought homosexuality is immoral, so let us check if that is the right interpretation of the position of Jesus by examining the topic of homosexuality and seeing if we can come up with ANY arguments, evidence, data or reasoning to support the position that homosexuality is immoral".
And when we take THAT approach we find the answer to this is a resounding "NO". No such arguments appear to exist, and they are not forthcoming. Least of all from you, other99, JeffBase40, convicted criminal Dinesh D'Souza..... or any of the other militant anti-homosexuals I could name on and off this forum.
At which point the intellectually honest approach would be to say "Ok, Jesus was rational.... but there is no rational arguments against homosexuality or homosexual unions..... therefore the failure must be with MY original assumption as to Jesus' position on this matter".
But alas that honest step is not one we see taken that often.
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Originally Posted by Frogburn
But you can make a mockery out of the brutal torture and death of Jesus by arguing all God in heaven ever wanted is to tell people to be "nice" to each other like indifferent hippies.
Unfortunately (for you) the fact that this Jesus character was NOT said to have died, but said to now live in an ETERNAL state of bliss and dominion...... means the story makes a mockery of itself. No one else needs to come and do that for it.
If you marry a man, or date a man, and you are a man it is a homosexual lifestyle.
Ok, cool. So lesbians such as myself are off the hook, so to speak.
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But you can make a mockery out of the brutal torture and death of Jesus by arguing all God in heaven ever wanted is to tell people to be "nice" to each other like indifferent hippies.
No one has said that. God commands far more than we simply be nice to one another. He demands love. If you confuse love with simply being nice, that is very sad.
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Personally, I don't see why cutting your enemy's throat is wrong,
Because killing your enemy is not loving your enemy. You also place your life above his, which is also wrong.
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(or) having sex with a million women, or banging 20 gay or bi dudes in the butt or mouth
Because using sex in that way cheapens a beautiful gift.
You speak of God, but noticeably absent is the unconditional love of Christ.
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