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Old 04-21-2017, 10:20 AM
 
4,538 posts, read 4,811,723 times
Reputation: 1549

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonkonkomaNative View Post
There were many men claiming to be the messiah at the time. None of them were accepted by the Jews and all of the were killed by Rome. Rome had the only power over life and death. There are no examples in the Bible of the Jews crucifying anyone.

The Jews did not crucify Jesus. They had no power over life and death. Pilate had all of the power.

Blaming the Jews serves both ignorance and it is anti Semitic.
Yes, the Romans did not allow the Jews to execute, but the Jews forced Pilate' hand. He had no desire whatsoever to crucify Jesus. Contemporary Jews cry 'anti Semitism' whenever someone says that they were responsible, but that term refers to an unreasonable hatred of Jews, which I certainly do not have. In the days of the early church many Jews repented and accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior, but of course many continue to deny any responsibility.

Their refusal to accept responsibility is similar to the Gentile's, in that it is a refusal to accept their sinful actions, and one in particular. Of course they and the Gentiles are forgiven once they ask Jesus to forgive them, but the same issue of pride is often preventative.

It is understandable why the Jews were disappointed in Jesus. They expected Him to bring the hand of God against their Roman enemies, much as God did before. They expected their Messiah to kill for them, but Jesus never killed anyone, instead He said that He would die for them, as one who lays down His life for His friends. They were crushed when He was put to death, but then He appeared to them resurrected, and they did as He commanded them. Even Jesus' brothers did not believe He was the Son of God until they saw Him resurrected.

The schism between the believing and non-believing Jews is nothing new, since the early church was persecuted by non-believers, summed up in Paul, a Pharisee whom Jesus appeared to, who went on to become perhaps the greatest of all the disciples.

'John 18: 'Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium, and it was early morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium, lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover. 29 Pilate then went out to them and said, “What accusation do you bring against this Man?”

30 They answered and said to him, “If He were not an evildoer, we would not have delivered Him up to you.”

31 Then Pilate said to them, “You take Him and judge Him according to your law.

Therefore the Jews said to him, “It is not lawful for us to put anyone to death,” 32 that the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled which He spoke, signifying by what death He would die.

33 Then Pilate entered the Praetorium again, called Jesus, and said to Him, “Are You the King of the Jews?”

34 Jesus answered him, “Are you speaking for yourself about this, or did others tell you this concerning Me?”

35 Pilate answered, “Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered You to me. What have You done?”

36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”

37 Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?”

Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”

38 Pilate said to Him, “What is truth?” And when he had said this, he went out again to the Jews, and said to them, “I find no fault in Him at all.
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:00 PM
 
6,961 posts, read 4,614,977 times
Reputation: 2485
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT View Post
Yes, the Romans did not allow the Jews to execute, but the Jews forced Pilate' hand. He had no desire whatsoever to crucify Jesus. Contemporary Jews cry 'anti Semitism' whenever someone says that they were responsible, but that term refers to an unreasonable hatred of Jews, which I certainly do not have. In the days of the early church many Jews repented and accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior, but of course many continue to deny any responsibility.

Their refusal to accept responsibility is similar to the Gentile's, in that it is a refusal to accept their sinful actions, and one in particular. Of course they and the Gentiles are forgiven once they ask Jesus to forgive them, but the same issue of pride is often preventative.

It is understandable why the Jews were disappointed in Jesus. They expected Him to bring the hand of God against their Roman enemies, much as God did before. They expected their Messiah to kill for them, but Jesus never killed anyone, instead He said that He would die for them, as one who lays down His life for His friends. They were crushed when He was put to death, but then He appeared to them resurrected, and they did as He commanded them. Even Jesus' brothers did not believe He was the Son of God until they saw Him resurrected.

The schism between the believing and non-believing Jews is nothing new, since the early church was persecuted by non-believers, summed up in Paul, a Pharisee whom Jesus appeared to, who went on to become perhaps the greatest of all the disciples.

'John 18: 'Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium, and it was early morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium, lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover. 29 Pilate then went out to them and said, “What accusation do you bring against this Man?”

30 They answered and said to him, “If He were not an evildoer, we would not have delivered Him up to you.”

31 Then Pilate said to them, “You take Him and judge Him according to your law.

Therefore the Jews said to him, “It is not lawful for us to put anyone to death,” 32 that the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled which He spoke, signifying by what death He would die.

33 Then Pilate entered the Praetorium again, called Jesus, and said to Him, “Are You the King of the Jews?”

34 Jesus answered him, “Are you speaking for yourself about this, or did others tell you this concerning Me?”

35 Pilate answered, “Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered You to me. What have You done?”

36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”

37 Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?”

Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”

38 Pilate said to Him, “What is truth?” And when he had said this, he went out again to the Jews, and said to them, “I find no fault in Him at all.
Jews had no power. Pilate had all of the power. The leaders at the Temple were appointed by Rome. Jesus was a political threat to Rome. He was a radical. He was a threat to Rome. Rome murdered every man claiming to be the Messiah. The Temple had no power to stop any of it. Jews did not kill Jesus. The responsibility belong to Rome .
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:02 PM
 
6,961 posts, read 4,614,977 times
Reputation: 2485
The idea that anyone but Rome had the ability to force Pilates hand is not credible. Pilate was in charge and his weak attempt to pass off responsibility is just that, weak and also not credible.
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:55 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,033,127 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT View Post
Yes, the Romans did not allow the Jews to execute, but the Jews forced Pilate' hand. He had no desire whatsoever to crucify Jesus. Contemporary Jews cry 'anti Semitism' whenever someone says that they were responsible, but that term refers to an unreasonable hatred of Jews, which I certainly do not have. In the days of the early church many Jews repented and accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior, but of course many continue to deny any responsibility.

Their refusal to accept responsibility is similar to the Gentile's, in that it is a refusal to accept their sinful actions, and one in particular. Of course they and the Gentiles are forgiven once they ask Jesus to forgive them, but the same issue of pride is often preventative.

It is understandable why the Jews were disappointed in Jesus. They expected Him to bring the hand of God against their Roman enemies, much as God did before. They expected their Messiah to kill for them, but Jesus never killed anyone, instead He said that He would die for them, as one who lays down His life for His friends. They were crushed when He was put to death, but then He appeared to them resurrected, and they did as He commanded them. Even Jesus' brothers did not believe He was the Son of God until they saw Him resurrected.

The schism between the believing and non-believing Jews is nothing new, since the early church was persecuted by non-believers, summed up in Paul, a Pharisee whom Jesus appeared to, who went on to become perhaps the greatest of all the disciples.

'John 18: 'Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium, and it was early morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium, lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover. 29 Pilate then went out to them and said, “What accusation do you bring against this Man?”

30 They answered and said to him, “If He were not an evildoer, we would not have delivered Him up to you.”

31 Then Pilate said to them, “You take Him and judge Him according to your law.

Therefore the Jews said to him, “It is not lawful for us to put anyone to death,” 32 that the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled which He spoke, signifying by what death He would die.

33 Then Pilate entered the Praetorium again, called Jesus, and said to Him, “Are You the King of the Jews?”

34 Jesus answered him, “Are you speaking for yourself about this, or did others tell you this concerning Me?”

35 Pilate answered, “Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered You to me. What have You done?”

36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”

37 Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?”

Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”

38 Pilate said to Him, “What is truth?” And when he had said this, he went out again to the Jews, and said to them, “I find no fault in Him at all.
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Old 04-22-2017, 06:02 PM
 
4,538 posts, read 4,811,723 times
Reputation: 1549
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonkonkomaNative View Post
Jews had no power. Pilate had all of the power. The leaders at the Temple were appointed by Rome. Jesus was a political threat to Rome. He was a radical. He was a threat to Rome. Rome murdered every man claiming to be the Messiah. The Temple had no power to stop any of it. Jews did not kill Jesus. The responsibility belong to Rome .
Just curious, do you accept Jesus to be the Messiah, the Son of God?
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Old 04-23-2017, 04:12 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,033,127 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT View Post
Just curious, do you accept Jesus to be the Messiah, the Son of God?
What does that have to do with what she just said?...
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Old 04-23-2017, 08:23 AM
 
6,961 posts, read 4,614,977 times
Reputation: 2485
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT View Post
Just curious, do you accept Jesus to be the Messiah, the Son of God?
You did not start this thread to discuss my beliefs, did you? Hmmmmm or did you. .

I would have to tell you my entire story if you want to make this about me.

Here goes.

It was a dark and blustery night. The wind whipped through the fragile ...... hmmm make that
fra-gil-ee.

This writer block bites.
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Old 04-23-2017, 09:18 AM
 
9,588 posts, read 5,043,563 times
Reputation: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonkonkomaNative View Post
You did not start this thread to discuss my beliefs, did you? Hmmmmm or did you. .

I would have to tell you my entire story if you want to make this about me.

Here goes.

It was a dark and blustery night. The wind whipped through the fragile ...... hmmm make that
fra-gil-ee.

This writer block bites.

Your sense of humor is hilarious sometimes....
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Old 04-23-2017, 01:32 PM
 
4,538 posts, read 4,811,723 times
Reputation: 1549
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonkonkomaNative View Post
You did not start this thread to discuss my beliefs, did you? Hmmmmm or did you. .

I would have to tell you my entire story if you want to make this about me.

Here goes.

It was a dark and blustery night. The wind whipped through the fragile ...... hmmm make that
fra-gil-ee.

This writer block bites.
Ok, so you don't. One more if you don't mind, are you Jewish?
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Old 04-23-2017, 03:38 PM
 
6,961 posts, read 4,614,977 times
Reputation: 2485
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT View Post
Ok, so you don't. One more if you don't mind, are you Jewish?
I don't what?

The story continues.

I was born in a manger.

Okay that has been done..... make it in a far off land. That's it. No. Make that an island.

The taxi driver beamed and said, " Mazel tov, but what a mess on the back seat. "


Did I mention this was a graphic novel?
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