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They are the same because NEITHER has any impact on our SALVATION. That was achieved by Jesus which is also why salvation doesn't depend on whether or not someone ever heard of Jesus. BUT our SANCTIFICATION depends entirely on whether or not we achieve some harmonically resonant (imperfect) kind of the agape love Jesus perfectly achieved because that will determine whether or not our imperfections are covered by His perfection (Grace).
I see nothing there about repentance and believing Jesus died for our sins. Isn’t that the first step to being a Jesus-follower?
My six-line post wasn't intended as a theological treatise. I specifically referred to the "born-again experience" as the first step on the path. The born-again experience obviously includes repentance and believing Jesus died for our sins.
My six-line post wasn't intended as a theological treatise. I specifically referred to the "born-again experience" as the first step on the path. The born-again experience obviously includes repentance and believing Jesus died for our sins.
That would also probably fit many definitions of a delusion.
No, you are not claiming credit for your salvation by accepting it and I've already explained why. And good grief, NO! No one is automatically saved by Jesus' work on the cross. His death on the cross paid the penalty for our sins. His work on the cross did NOT give man the perfect righteousness needed to have an eternal relationship with God. That happens when a person believes in Jesus. Read Romans chapters 3-5 and let it sink in what Paul is saying.
If everyone was automatically saved because of Jesus' work on the cross, then why did the apostolic writers who wrote AFTER Jesus went to the cross repeatedly say that you must believe in Christ in order to be saved? Jesus himself is recorded saying that it is those who believe in him that he will resurrect.
I'm not buying what you keep trying to sell so just stop trying to sell it to me.
Not selling, just explaining. The current interpretations are wrong.It is not what we believe ABOUT Jesus and God that matters. It is simply having faith and belief that He did save us and it is the Truth. If you believe He is who He says He is then you will try to love as He did and as He instructed His disciples. Of course, if you love naturally, as Paul said some Gentiles do without the law, the effect would be the same. It is the agape love that sanctifies us and keeps us from behaving badly. We have complicated things unnecessarily, and made it all about the right BELIEFS when it is all about the right agape love! That is why we are told to love God and each other every day and repent when we don't.
Not selling, just explaining. The current interpretations are wrong.It is not what we believe ABOUT Jesus and God that matters. It is simply having faith and belief that He did save us and it is the Truth. If you believe He is who He says He is then you will try to love as He did and as He instructed His disciples. Of course, if you love naturally, as Paul said some Gentiles do without the law, the effect would be the same. It is the agape love that sanctifies us and keeps us from behaving badly. We have complicated things unnecessarily, and made it all about the right BELIEFS when it is all about the right agape love! That is why we are told to love God and each other every day and repent when we don't.
The Bible says that no one is saved until they place their faith in Christ. Period. If you want to push Universalism which is what you're doing, do it on the thread that is designated for it.
Since I disagree with the notion that a person who has died physically is in some sort of 'soul sleep' or non-existent state until the time of the resurrection, I see no need for God to necessarily wait for the resurrection to give those who have died without hearing about Jesus an opportunity to hear the Gospel.
The Bible clearly defines death Mike, I seriously doubt it is wrong, but at any rate here is what it says: (Psalm 146:4) . . .His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish. . .
(Ecclesiastes 9:5) For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten.
(Ecclesiastes 9:10) Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.
(Isaiah 38:18) For the Grave cannot glorify you, Death cannot praise you. Those who go down into the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness.
Perhaps you believe that some part of you lives on as satan told Eve, but the fact is God said they would die.
You may be interested or not, but one of the biggest hopes for Christians is the resurrection. 1 Cor chap 15 goes into detail and the Christian congregation will be discussing this subject today. I hope you will join us sir, contact your local Kingdom hall for instructions on how to attend, or go to JW.org for more instructions.
The Bible clearly defines death Mike, I seriously doubt it is wrong, but at any rate here is what it says: (Psalm 146:4) . . .His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish. . .
(Ecclesiastes 9:5) For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten.
(Ecclesiastes 9:10) Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.
(Isaiah 38:18) For the Grave cannot glorify you, Death cannot praise you. Those who go down into the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness.
Perhaps you believe that some part of you lives on as satan told Eve, but the fact is God said they would die.
You may be interested or not, but one of the biggest hopes for Christians is the resurrection. 1 Cor chap 15 goes into detail and the Christian congregation will be discussing this subject today. I hope you will join us sir, contact your local Kingdom hall for instructions on how to attend, or go to JW.org for more instructions.
Those who get resurrected, who exactly are they? Is the only requirement to call upon the name Jehovah and believe? What if someone calls upon Jesus but not Jehovah? What if that person never says the name Jehovah?
The Bible clearly defines death Mike, I seriously doubt it is wrong, but at any rate here is what it says: (Psalm 146:4) . . .His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish. . .
(Ecclesiastes 9:5) For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten.
(Ecclesiastes 9:10) Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.
(Isaiah 38:18) For the Grave cannot glorify you, Death cannot praise you. Those who go down into the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness.
Perhaps you believe that some part of you lives on as satan told Eve, but the fact is God said they would die.
You may be interested or not, but one of the biggest hopes for Christians is the resurrection. 1 Cor chap 15 goes into detail and the Christian congregation will be discussing this subject today. I hope you will join us sir, contact your local Kingdom hall for instructions on how to attend, or go to JW.org for more instructions.
The Bible speaks of various categories of death. Physical death, spiritual death, temporal death, positional death, sexual death. All death is not the same. Neither physical death nor spiritual death mean non-existence but rather refer to separation. In physical death the soul separates from the body. In spiritual death a person is separated from a relationship with God.
As for resurrection, it does not preclude an intermediate state.
I've already explained Ecclesiastes back in post 16.
And to blazes with your suggestion about me joining the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Those who get resurrected, who exactly are they? People who have died. Is the only requirement to call upon the name Jehovah and believe? That is not even a requirement for resurrection. Many who never even heard of Him will be resurrected. What if someone calls upon Jesus but not Jehovah? They will receive a resurrection. What if that person never says the name Jehovah?
They will be resurrected.
The only individuals who will not be resurrected are those who have the judgment of Gehenna Zero. Jesus stated it this way: (Matthew 12:32) . . .whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it will not be forgiven him, no, not in this system of things nor in that to come.
Others may call it the unforgivable sin. How does one get that Judgment? They have to know Jehovah intimately and work against His purposes, deliberately practicing serious sins. 1 Cor 6:9-11
Keep in mind however, the return of Jesus, if you are alive then and have been judged as a goat, then you will be executed with no resurrection 2 Thes 1:6-9
The Bible speaks of various categories of death. Physical death, spiritual death, temporal death, positional death, sexual death. All death is not the same. Neither physical death nor spiritual death mean non-existence but rather refer to separation. In physical death the soul separates from the body. In spiritual death a person is separated from a relationship with God.
As for resurrection, it does not preclude an intermediate state.
I've already explained Ecclesiastes back in post 16.
And to blazes with your suggestion about me joining the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Whether you join Jehovah's witnesses or not is your business sir. You have to choose, not I. If you want to know more about us, I will be glad to assist, but if not that is your choice.
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